Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 03:17:37 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2jg0hh$m26@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: '94 Into the Wind catalog The new Into the Wind catalog is out and makes for some interesting browsing. The most important thing that comes to my mind are the *prices*. For the most part, they're quite low, both for classic kites and a lot of the new ones. Manufacturers are doing their part to make things cheap. The biggest surprise to me was probably the basic Spin-Off for $99. I bought my first basic for $110 (I think it was mispriced, but I was too naive to realize it) and my first 12 panel for...um...I think it was about $130 (this was about 7 years ago). After watching the price for this admittedly great kite rise to what I would have to consider ridiculous heights in the last several years, it's very pleasant to see it hit a lot of $99, making it one of the *perfect* beginner's kites. A lot of today's flyers got their start with Spin-Offs and still speak very fondly of them, even if they don't pull the kites out of their bags. $100 for a truely classic big wing kite. Or there's the Wasp, not quite as classic as the Spin-Off, but still well-known from days of old. Graphite frame (doesn't say if they're still using carrington) and it's only $116 for the full-sized kite! On the other hand, some kites do seem to be overpriced still. The Little Sister is still at $360. The Jordan Pro (one of personal faves!) is $280 in the AFC version (while the Jabberwocky is only $240 with Advantage!). The Ultra is $245 and they recommend buying $35 Rev longthrow handles with it. And this is for the basic vented production sail. (I won't tell you what I paid for my custom vented sail; it'd just make you jealous. ;-) And while I was happy to pay over $200 in '90 for my Phantom, I don't think I could convince myself it was worth $216 today--especially with kites like the Jabberwocky being only $25 more. New stuff: Loads of new stuff in the stunt kite section. ItW is now carrying the PL Buggy ($580 spoked wheels, $540 for fat tires) as well as the two smaller Peels. They refer to the 3.6m as "merely huge"--wonder what they'd say about the 10m or 15m. The Peel seem slighly overpriced at $380 and $499, but it's been a while since I've seen any pricing on them, so I don't know how that compares to other dealers. Great to finally see the Katana in this catalog. In quads, ItW is now carrying the Force 10 foils and they list the much-discussed Backtracker for $72 (complete). The Backtracker is quoted as being available on May 1. Also listed in the Quad section is TC Powers' Ultra, which I've mentioned here often. I was surprised to see it in Quad, and likewise surprisd to see almost no mention made of the kite's superb dual line qualities. It's worth noting that the kite can be flown very well on just 2 lines and while it's a good idea to get the long throw handles, you can give quad a try with standard Rev I handles if you've got access to 'em. There's also a low-cost version of the Tracer called the Trooper. It's an inch shorter and looks like maybe the leading edge is curved a bit more. Only $99. And also new to me is a 3/4 version of the Spook, the "Spookie." Same great graphics, 1/2oz icarex on lightweight graphite. For those not in the know, the Spook is a ultra high aspect ratio delta which is extremely radical. It's got an interesting bridle system, attaching not to the t-fitting but to the bottom of the spine. Only $116 for the 3/4. ----------- Single Lines: Can't comment on pricing too much here as I've only bought on single liner >From ItW (my Red Braswell Tumbling Star (number 13 of the batch built by KiteCraft...humourously, I ordered the kite from ItW in Colorado, but the kite was *made* a mere 5 blocks from where I was living in Bloomington, Indiana at the time!!) Unfortunately the single line collection doesn't have all that much new and exciting in it. The same old deltas, D/Cs, 'foils (including stratoscoops and flowforms), facets, and so on. One new set, though, are the 3 bug 'foils mentioned here on rec.kites not too long ago. These look exceedingly cute and I'm looking forward to seeing them in person. $59 for about a 2'8" x 2'8" kite. Guess that's about enough for now. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 07:49:16 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article <2jg0hh$m26@umd5.umd.edu>, jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >The new Into the Wind catalog is out and makes for some interesting >browsing. Did you see the actual catalog or a preview copy? I'm only asking to determine whether I should expect my catalog in the main in a week or so, or a month or so. I don't remember when last year's catalog came out... >The most important thing that comes to my mind are the *prices*. For the >most part, they're quite low, both for classic kites and a lot of the new >ones. Manufacturers are doing their part to make things cheap. The largest market in stunt kites, at least in the USA, is the $100 to $200 price range. I'm not surprised that there are lots of kites in this price range. Many manufacturers are scrambling to cut costs in order to compete in this market. Frankly, I'm glad that I'm not making kites in this price range... >On the other hand, some kites do seem to be overpriced still. The Little >Sister is still at $360. The Jordan Pro (one of personal faves!) is $280 >in the AFC version (while the Jabberwocky is only $240 with Advantage!). >The Ultra is $245 and they recommend buying $35 Rev longthrow handles with >it. ... >And while I was happy to pay over $200 in '90 for my Phantom, I don't think >I could convince myself it was worth $216 today--especially with kites like >the Jabberwocky being only $25 more. Hoy Quan of BFK calls these "boutique" kites. You pay more, and hopefully get more. Most of these kites have unique handling or graphics that set them apart from the other kites. They usually are produced by smaller manufacturers. I purposely make kites that fall into this category. Because the price is higher, I can afford to do things that distinguish my kites from the rest of the market... >Great to finally see the Katana in this catalog. And don't believe what they say in the review, the Katana is nearly silent in the air. I don't know whether they had it mistuned, or removed the standoffs, but the ItW catalog lists the Katana as noisy. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 10:40:45 -1000 From: ilh@mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) Message-Id: Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: | Did you see the actual catalog or a preview copy? I'm only asking to | determine whether I should expect my catalog in the main in a week or | so, or a month or so. I don't remember when last year's catalog came | out... I got mine in the mail today. | The largest market in stunt kites, at least in the USA, is the $100 to | $200 price range. I'm not surprised that there are lots of kites in | this price range. Many manufacturers are scrambling to cut costs in | order to compete in this market. | | Frankly, I'm glad that I'm not making kites in this price range... Oh, but you *are* making kites in this range! That Katana sells for $199 in the catalog. | And don't believe what they say in the review, the Katana is nearly | silent in the air. I don't know whether they had it mistuned, or | removed the standoffs, but the ItW catalog lists the Katana as noisy. It is silent in the lower part of its wind range, and makes a soft buzzing noise in the upper part. I don't think I'm really disagreeing with you, Marty. (Well, at least mine makes a soft buzzing noise.) My guess is they might not have had the outer standoffs tuned right. You can adjust pressure in them by sliding the attachment point along the spreader. I'm glad to see Marty's Katana in the catalog! --Lee -- Lee Hetherington ilh@mit.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:11:43 -1000 From: djharris@novell.com (David J. Harris) Message-Id: Organization: NOVELL NDP Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article <2jg0hh$m26@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >The new Into the Wind catalog is out and makes for some interesting >browsing. I hope this fits into this discussion. I have the ItW catalog in front of me, and I'm desperately perplexed at the large amount of radical kites available (pp. 24-25). I'm hoping I can get some feedback from anyone who has flow more than one of the listed kites (Legend Moriah, Little Sister, NS Estreme, NS Radical, Prism Ion, Spookie, Team High Fly, Trixter, Wizard, Wizard-Graphite). I currently own a rev II and an NSR (w/Eastman aluminum/graphite rods) and enjoy quick-action flying, but wish my NSR flew a little faster and handled some of the more radical maneuvers more quickly. I'm also chicken to push my NSR too far, considering the pricing and limited avaiIability of the spars. I have flown an NSE and enjoyed ir, but didn't try anything but patterns with it (the guy had a tail attached to it). I have flown a fiberglass Wizard and was very impressed. The Wizard (graphite?) will probably be my next purchase, but I would like to know what the other kites offer that's different (good and bad). My price range is flexible, but the Little Sister is probably out. I'm usually too nervous about crashes to enjoy flying the radical ultralights (Jabberwocky, Hordan Air Pro, Katana, Monarch, Star Watcher, Tracer UL, Trooper) but considering the usual lack of wind around here, I would consider one as a second purchase. I've heard a lot about turtles with the Prism Eclipse, but wonder if it's any good at other radical moves. Considering it's size, it probably will be too slow for what I'm looking for. I've been out to the archives before, but the material there wasn't very specific to my interests. I would greatly appreciate feedback from anyone who has flown more than one of the above mentioned kites, as that would be the best comparison. Thanks, David -- David | mhs: djharris@novell J. | inet: djharris@sjfsmtp.novell.com Harris | cserve: 71776,523 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 15:54:47 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2jhct7$sur@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >>The new Into the Wind catalog is out and makes for some interesting >>browsing. > >Did you see the actual catalog or a preview copy? I received the actual catalog in the mail yesterday. It's not a preview. >The largest market in stunt kites, at least in the USA, is the $100 to >$200 price range. A price range which *does* include the Katana ($199 in the catalog). So let's have no more about how you're only producing boutique kites. ;-) >Hoy Quan of BFK calls these "boutique" kites. You pay more, and >hopefully get more. Most of these kites have unique handling or >graphics that set them apart from the other kites. They usually are >produced by smaller manufacturers. I would agree with everything written above, but one should still be realistic. The Little Sister is not $100 above the crowd as a radical, and it's certainly no ultralight. And while the laser cutting is nice and the sewing is well done, I don't see any reason for a Carrington and pultruded graphite (custom spars notwithstanding) kite to cost so much. Are the Brother/Sister kites this expensive in Europe? (ie are we paying importing costs?) >And don't believe what they say in the review, the Katana is nearly >silent in the air. I don't know whether they had it mistuned, or >removed the standoffs, but the ItW catalog lists the Katana as noisy. I was curious to see the stats for the Katana and was rather put off by the "noisy." Seeing them on the field pretty often, I know they're not loud at all. Not really silent (at least compared to a Pro, Ultra, or properly built Tracer (rare)) but certainly very quiet. I would, also, though, argue with the wind rating. I never saw the original Katana as an ultralight and the low range of 3 seems a bit optimistic. Do you agree or disagree with that? Is BFK or anyone else going to be carrying the Katana II? Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 04:07:24 -1000 From: dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog Marty wrote: : | The largest market in stunt kites, at least in the USA, is the $100 to : | $200 price range. I'm not surprised that there are lots of kites in : | this price range. Many manufacturers are scrambling to cut costs in : | order to compete in this market. : | : | Frankly, I'm glad that I'm not making kites in this price range... Lee wrote: : Oh, but you *are* making kites in this range! That Katana sells for : $199 in the catalog. Dick Reply's...... And don't forget the 10AKA discount on top of that for a price of ~$190. Can't wait to get my own. :-) BTW...For those folks that do not have the new catalog then you can call 1-800-541-0314. They are free for the asking and make great reference books to carry onto the kite field even if you don't order from them. But somehow I'll bet you'll buy at least a few things. The selection is fantastic. : I'm glad to see Marty's Katana in the catalog! Me too! -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell dbell@lobby.ti.com (work) dickbell@netcom.com (home) Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 18:30:41 -1000 From: ag893@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Evan Splett) Message-Id: Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog I always found some of the classifications in the Catalog a bit strange, the NBK as an Ultralight or the Team High Fly as a radical kite. Their prices came down a lot last year, it's good to hear that they are still reasonable. BTW, I have a new email address now, having joined the select group of kiteflyers laid off by Digital Equipment Corporation. Evan -- Evan Splett ag893@freenet.carleton.ca phone: 613-733-0593 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 09:09:15 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard OIT Network Services Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article ilh@mit.edu writes: >Oh, but you *are* making kites in this range! That Katana sells for >$199 in the catalog. I was very surprised to see this as the price. The suggested retail is $250. I guess Into the Wind is really serious about discounts and such. >My guess is they might not have had the outer standoffs tuned right. >You can adjust pressure in them by sliding the attachment point along >the spreader. I agree. Either that, or they removed the outer standoffs... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 03:49:01 -1000 From: fataq@cc.usu.edu Message-Id: <1994Feb14.074902.10577@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog Re the discussion of prices in the new ITW catalog and the general feeling that prices have come down or at least are somewhat stable- I noted that all the Rev prices are up about $8, the 6' flexifoil has dropped about $25, but this is offset by a price increase in the Quadrifoil 25. Is it the demand and popularity of these models driving up prices? Don Fiesinger FATAQ@cc.usu.edu Geology Dept. Utah State University Logan, UT 84322-4505 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 05:44:05 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2jtf05$74e@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog In article BLACKBURN@PHYSICS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Kenny Blackburn) writes: >I just tried this 1-800 phone number and it didn't work for me in Canada! >Would anyone be nice enough to tell me another way of getting the catalog to >Canada? USA 800 numbers are not usable internationally... (just ask Andrew about his Nevada hotel reservations...;-) For international orders/information, you can reach Into the Wind at (303)-449-5356. Faxes can be sent to (303)-449-7315. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 04:19:12 -1000 From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) Message-Id: Organization: CTS Network Services (CTSNET/crash), San Diego, CA Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog BLACKBURN@PHYSICS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Kenny Blackburn) writes: (in reference to the 1994 Into the Wind catalog.. > I just tried this 1-800 phone number and it didn't work for me in Canada! > Would anyone be nice enough to tell me another way of getting the catalog > to Canada? >From the 1994 Kite Trade Association directory.. Into the Wind, Inc 1408 Pearl Street Boulder, CO 80302 Phone: (303) 449-5356 Fax: (303) 449-7315 -- Good Winds and Tight Lines! Dan Rubesh AKA Member/Merchant Wind Wizard, Purveyor of UUCP: {ucsd, nosc}!crash!danr GO Stunt Kites & Accessories ARPA: crash!danr@nosc.mil FLY A P.O. Box 5747 INET: danr@crash.cts.com STUNT Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5654 KITE! Member: Kite Trade Assn. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:24:20 -1000 From: tds@eschi.cray.com (Timothy Sirianni {x66452 CF/DEV}) Message-Id: <1994Feb16.132420.8325@ned.cray.com> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog Regarding the prices-in-the-ITW-catalog discussion: Doesn't the cost of Spectra seem high relative to some of the other mailorder outlets? Where do YOU go to buy Spectra? Cheers! -- ============================================================================= Tim Sirianni, Cray Research, Inc., 900 Lowater Road, Chippewa Falls WI 54729 Corporate Computing and Networks, tds@cray.com, (715) 726-6452, Fax 726-6713 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:27:51 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog [excuse me while I wander further from kite-related topics...] jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >USA 800 numbers are not usable internationally... (just ask Andrew about >his Nevada hotel reservations...;-) After all the hassle I had getting the numbers, the tale didn't end there. The journey from home to the Stardust was full of delays and difficulties, I arrived a full 26 hours after leaving home, exhasted. I had paid for my room a month or two in advance, the room was guaranteed, I had phoned them to warn them that I would be late. The Stardust promptly lost my luggage and sent me to my room on the 23rd floor. The room had a view of the strip, a big colour telly, a black Jacuzi (sp?), but no bed. ARGH! Don't know why they have rooms with a Jacuzi and no bed, perhaps they usually rent it by the hour? Andrew -- Work: gaffer@rec.com Phone: +44 793 614 110 Fax: +44 793 614 297 Play: andrew@tug.com Phone: +44 256 464 912 My mailbox was accidentally deleted while I was on holiday - I may have missed mail between mid-Jan & mid-Feb :-( = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 19:55:53 -1000 From: Robert Scribner Message-Id: Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Subject: Re: '94 Into the Wind catalog JUST DIAL 1-800-972-9885 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =