Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 23:02:05 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <3fl9qd$34h@pobox.csc.fi> Organization: STACK Finland Subject: Broad Seaming (Was: KTA Trade Show Orlando) In <3fi1m6$oqn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> n8skier@aol.com (N8SKIER) writes: >Attended KTA Show this year. >There is big noise about "Broad Seaming" or "Sailors Stiching" in the >industry. This means stronger sails, with better shape retention. Leetch >lines are not as necessary no because the sail shape is much more well >defined and cleaner. Can somebody (Marty?) explain in detail, what's this "Broad Seaming" means? Is it technical advantage or just marketing hype? Simo -- Simo.Salanne@csc.fi STACK Finland = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 06:53:35 -1000 From: mgraves@leadingedg.win.net (Michael Graves) Message-Id: <1576@leadingedg.win.net> Subject: Re: Broad Seaming (Was: KTA Trade Show Orlando) In article <3fl9qd$34h@pobox.csc.fi>, Simo Salanne (salanne@convex.csc.FI) writes: >In <3fi1m6$oqn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> n8skier@aol.com (N8SKIER) writes: > >>Attended KTA Show this year. > >>There is big noise about "Broad Seaming" or "Sailors Stiching" in the >>industry. This means stronger sails, with better shape retention. Leetch >>lines are not as necessary no because the sail shape is much more well >>defined and cleaner. > >Can somebody (Marty?) explain in detail, what's this "Broad Seaming" >means? Is it technical advantage or just marketing hype? Near as I can tell it simply refers to lofting a sailform in three dimensions, i.e. non-flat when sewn. This is what I gathered from conversations with Ken McNeil of Airie Kiteworks, who uses the technique in his Air FX kite. Michael Graves = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:30:52 -1000 From: mauricio@tezcat.com (Mauricio Araujo) Message-Id: <3g1oos$5td@xochi.tezcat.com> Organization: Tezcat.COM, Chicago Subject: Re: Broad Seaming (Was: KTA Trade Show Orlando) Simo Salanne (salanne@convex.csc.FI) wrote: : >There is big noise about "Broad Seaming" or "Sailors Stiching" in the : >industry. This means stronger sails, with better shape retention. Leetch : >lines are not as necessary no because the sail shape is much more well : >defined and cleaner. : Can somebody (Marty?) explain in detail, what's this "Broad Seaming" : means? Is it technical advantage or just marketing hype? Mauricio (while putting on flame-jacket) responds: Broad seaming refers to the process of sewing a straight edge to a curved edge. This creates an induced camber. The sail will never flat. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 08:42:30 -1000 From: swright@ix.netcom.com (Walter Wright III) Message-Id: <3ggnim$4ql@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Broad Seaming (Was: KTA Trade Show Orlando) In <3g1oos$5td@xochi.tezcat.com> mauricio@tezcat.com (Mauricio Araujo) in response to Simo Salanne (salanne@convex.csc.FI) writes: >Mauricio (while putting on flame-jacket) responds: > Broad seaming refers to the process of sewing a straight edge to a >curved edge. This creates an induced camber. The sail will never flat. > Does this just mean that sail stretch will be reduced a bit, because some camber can be "sewn in" or is there more to this? Is this the next *big* step for kite making? Skip -- Skip Wright swright@ix.netcom.com ...... Play walter.wright@shrmed.com ... Work Permission is hereby granted to use this correspondence freely. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:13:17 -1000 From: sasaki@netope.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3grect$p7a@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard OIT Network Services Subject: Re: Broad Seaming (Was: KTA Trade Show Orlando) Those who attended my aerodynamics talk at the AKA convention know that one of my pet peeves is the use of the term "induced camber". Curved leading and trailing edges may induce camber, but there is nothing inherent about this kite design feature which creates more camber than a straight leading or trailing edge. |>>Mauricio (while putting on flame-jacket) responds: |>> Broad seaming refers to the process of sewing a straight edge to a |>>curved edge. This creates an induced camber. The sail will never flat. Or two curved edges joined together. Camber may also be induced by allowing for fabric stretch. Carrington stretches quite a bit on the bias, and many kite makers use this to increase the camber in a certain part of the sail. In article <3ggnim$4ql@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, swright@ix.netcom.com (Walter Wright III) writes: |>Does this just mean that sail stretch will be reduced a bit, because |>some camber can be "sewn in" or is there more to this? Is this the next |>*big* step for kite making? The sail will still stretch because fabric stretches. Will this revolutionize kites? I doubt it. Folks have been doing things to increase camber in kites for a while. Dave Lord has experimented with curved battens to increase camber. The Banshee line of kites all have curved battens to shape the airfoil of these kites. Bob Childs Wangdoodle (or whatever it is called) uses double surfaces and a vent to increase camber. Broad seaming requires different manufacturing techniques. Those folks who do the "glue and sew" assembly will have to develop ways of aligning the pieces and holding them aligned while the glue dries. Flat fell seams are hard to do right along curved seams, especially with fabric like Icarex which doesn't stretch much. Broad seaming will become part of the toolkit of kite makers. What I would like to see is a real increase in the efficiency of kites. This will require a more radical change than broad seaming. Thicker leading edges, thicker airfoils, truly high aspect ratio wings, movable control surfaces, rigid wings, etc will substantially change the way kites fly and will change the way we fly them. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =