Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:42:34 -1000 From: dorf@iesd.auc.dk (Thomas Dorf Nielsen) Message-Id: Organization: Math & CS at Aalborg University Subject: Copyright on Kite-Designs (WAS: What IS a Synergy?) >>>>> "George" == George W Gilchrist writes: ... George> tricks called inversions. It would be really bad form to George> copy these kites without permission of the manufacturer George> (Guildworks Studios) since they have invested thousands of George> hours in making these designs fly. Guildworks usually have George> demos at most major festivals in the US. I have three of George> their kites and all are wonderful. First of all: Do not get me wrong, of course you are perfectly right! Copyright is copyright! But - and this is my point - they don't loose money by letting people like me make a duplicate of their kite: I *don't* buy kites! I only fly homemades! Quite another matter is it, that a bought kite is probably quite a lot more precicely built and therefore will perform better - to some degree, anyway! (For sure if you compare them with *my* kites! ;-) But what if that (little?) better performance is not what you are after? (And if a compagny still doesn't want their plans out in the public, that's - naturally - perfectly ok! There is a lot of other wonderfull designs to be tried out! :-) What do you all think of this out there? Are there anyone else like me - people who likes their own kites the best? Any point-of-views on kite-copyrights? Is it a violation of a law, if you - eg. after seeing a great commercial kite - go home and make yourself a "copy" based on memory and never ever sells it? Morals and ethics? Is it "bad" to say 'WOW! I wanna make a kite like that for myself!' ? And just for the slow ones ;) I do NOT promote "no copyrights"! /dorf (Feel free to check out my site. Nothing on copyrights, though :-) -- Thomas Dorf Nielsen | dorf@iesd.auc.dk | "...and the rest - Amagergade 25, 1.TV | http://www.iesd.auc.dk/~dorf | is silence..." DK-9000 Aalborg | Aalborg University | oo DENMARK | Fr. Bajers Vej 7, E1-207 | . . . __/\_/\_/`' = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 07:18:48 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <49ndpu$59o@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Organization: Dept. of Zoology, University of Washington Subject: Re: Copyright on Kite-Designs (WAS: What IS a Synergy?) dorf@iesd.auc.dk (Thomas Dorf Nielsen) wrote: >>>>>> "George" == George W Gilchrist writes: >... > George> tricks called inversions. It would be really bad form to > George> copy these kites without permission of the manufacturer > George> (Guildworks Studios) since they have invested thousands of > George> hours in making these designs fly. Guildworks usually have > George> demos at most major festivals in the US. I have three of > George> their kites and all are wonderful. >First of all: Do not get me wrong, of course you are perfectly right! >Copyright is copyright! >But - and this is my point - they don't loose money by letting people >like me make a duplicate of their kite: Thomas, I make kites, including some "copies" in the sense of seeing a design and trying to duplicate it on my own. But I would not use someone else's kite as a pattern. My Synergy 31 is made up of 31 individual panels of two different weights of Icarex. The shape of the panels is engineered to allow the kite to assume its "natural" 3D form with as little stretching as possible. The shape of the panels and the location of the seams are the result of some fairly sophisticated engineering. This obviously cost Guildworks a lot of time and effort. If I "found" a pattern for this kite, it most certainly would cost Guildworks money, since their efforts created the design which is now being stolen. I benefit from their work, since I lack the skills and resources to design such a kite from scratch myself, while they get *nothing* in return. The theft of intellectual property is just as wrong as the theft of material goods. I have little problem with copying a delta design since there is far less original about the shape than there is with a Synergy or a Rev. I don't know if Mark Ricketts at Guildworks would give you permission to make a copy of one of his kites, but you certainly should ask before you do it. If he says no, then I would respect his rights. You certainly would be welcome to try to create your own tensigrity design, but I think copying Mark's efforts without permission is wrong. I would also question whether a "found" pattern would actually perform as well as a real Synergy. If it was not a blatant rip-off, then it almost surely would be an inferior kite. Buy yourself a Synergy. Write Mark to see if he will let you make one of your own. Accept his decision. It's the right thing to do. Cheers, George ======================================================== George W. Gilchrist University of Washington gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu Department of Zoology Phone:(206)543-4859 Box 351800 FAX:(206)543-3041 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =