Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 08:25:18 -1000 From: morrisa@cab019.cs.ualberta.ca (Andrew Morris) Message-Id: <2n77ee$csq@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada Subject: Fabric sealing... I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. What I need is to find out what the standard commercial fabric used for kites is treated with (you know the stiff paper like nylon?) so that I can treat my own fabric. Why? Well, last winter, well lets just say I let my weakness overwhelm me and took my kites out to fly in the wet snow... They don't fly so well any more because they aren't very air tight any more... Oh, btw, I'm using a standard ripstop nylon which is available through any fabric store... Anyways, if there is such a monster out there that one could purchase in say a spray can or dip or something, and it can be purchased in small amounts (in scales for personal use), could you let me know? Thanks in advance... (man I can't wait until ALL the snow melts...) -- ============================================================================ Andrew Morris (The Android) | ptr=(void *)666; /* The pointer from hell. */ | Mail: morrisa@cs.ualberta.ca | I *NEED* a dry field and lots of wind... NOW! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 18:24:30 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <2n8ahv$5i3@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Fabric sealing... morrisa@cab019.cs.ualberta.ca (Andrew Morris) writes: >I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. What I need is to find out >what the standard commercial fabric used for kites is treated with (you know >the stiff paper like nylon?) so that I can treat my own fabric. Unfortunately, this is not exactly...practical. Spinnaker cloth (the fabric you're really looking for) is typically coated with a urethane or acryllic which is applied under heat and high pressure. I believe it's actually part of the calendering process in the manufacture of the fabric. In other words, this is not something you can buy and/or apply yourself. >last winter, well lets just say I let my weakness overwhelm me and took my >kites out to fly in the wet snow... They don't fly so well any more because >they aren't very air tight any more... I don't imagine the wet snow should have had much effect on the kites unless you kept them stretched out as they dried (water won't hurt a ripstop kite at all, but drying the sail when it's under tension can stretch it). >Oh, btw, I'm using a standard ripstop nylon which is available through any >fabric store... Unfortunately, "ripstop nylon" is merely a description of the weave, in which the main threads are very tightly packed and larger-diameter threads are interspersed at regular intervals. There are many grades and weights of ripstop. In kitemaking, you more specifically want to look for 'spinnaker cloth.' This is lighter, less porous, and all-around better suited for kitemaking. There are a number of popular brand-names, including Bainbridge, Sati AirCloth, and Carrington K42 Novare. There are plenty of other fabrics and manufacturers out there as well. Gaining popularity is a polyester ripstop sold under the name "Icarex" and imported from Japan by Shanti. Kites built with these materials should last longer and put up with more adverse conditions than the fabric you're currently using. And the kites will fly better (unless you're building a design that favors a lot of porosity...I'm always amazed at how well my Nantucket Kiteman "Valkyrie" flies, with it's extremely porous sail). There are plenty of mail order houses which will send fabric. My personal favorite is Hang 'em High. Check the address FAQ for their info, as well as for other sources. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:02:49 -1000 From: mgraves@leadingedg.win.net (Michael Graves) Message-Id: <249@leadingedg.win.net> Subject: Re: Fabric sealing... In article <2n77ee$csq@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>, Andrew Morris (morrisa@cab019.cs.ualberta.ca) writes: >I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. What I need is to find out >what the standard commercial fabric used for kites is treated with (you know >the stiff paper like nylon?) so that I can treat my own fabric. Why? Well, >last winter, well lets just say I let my weakness overwhelm me and took my >kites out to fly in the wet snow... They don't fly so well any more because >they aren't very air tight any more... I really don't think that any treatment you use on the cloth will return it to its original state. But your kites should not be so radically changed as to be useless. Perhaps try a bridle adjustment to reflect their new "broken-in" condition. If your kites are made with "clothing grade" ripstop then you may have more of a problem. The average Fabricland ripstop is very stretchy, and not really well suited to use in kites. If you are making kites you should look for "ripstop Nylon sailcloth", specifically. There are a few commercial coatings available for treating Nylon. Most are some form of UV inhibitor, porosity sealer, etc. None of them would have any impact on the dimensions of the sail. Good luck, Michael Graves = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 20:39:14 -1000 From: morrisa@cab018.cs.ualberta.ca (Andrew Morris) Message-Id: <2nb6qi$656@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada Subject: Re: Fabric sealing... jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >morrisa@cab019.cs.ualberta.ca (Andrew Morris) writes: >>I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. What I need is to find out >>what the standard commercial fabric used for kites is treated with (you know >>the stiff paper like nylon?) so that I can treat my own fabric. >Unfortunately, this is not exactly...practical. >Spinnaker cloth (the fabric you're really looking for) is typically coated >with a urethane or acryllic which is applied under heat and high pressure. >I believe it's actually part of the calendering process in the manufacture >of the fabric. >In other words, this is not something you can buy and/or apply yourself. Okedokie. I don't know much about fabric in general, I just thought there might be some "magic" stuff out there which was being used... >I don't imagine the wet snow should have had much effect on the kites >unless you kept them stretched out as they dried (water won't hurt a >ripstop kite at all, but drying the sail when it's under tension can >stretch it). Ok, I hung them up to dry. I guess live and learn comes in at this point... >Unfortunately, "ripstop nylon" is merely a description of the weave, in >which the main threads are very tightly packed and larger-diameter threads >are interspersed at regular intervals. There are many grades and weights >of ripstop. >In kitemaking, you more specifically want to look for 'spinnaker cloth.' >This is lighter, less porous, and all-around better suited for kitemaking. >There are a number of popular brand-names, including Bainbridge, Sati >AirCloth, and Carrington K42 Novare. There are plenty of other fabrics and >manufacturers out there as well. Gaining popularity is a polyester ripstop >sold under the name "Icarex" and imported from Japan by Shanti. Ok, I'm in Edmonton, Alberta Canada - try getting that kind of stuff up here without using mail order - NOT! Anyways, I'm aware of the materials which I *should* be using... The next one will be made of the correct stuff, even though it's gonna cost me a bundle... Ahhh, what one does for a little enjoyment huh? >Kites built with these materials should last longer and put up with more >adverse conditions than the fabric you're currently using. And the kites >will fly better (unless you're building a design that favors a lot of >porosity...I'm always amazed at how well my Nantucket Kiteman "Valkyrie" >flies, with it's extremely porous sail). >There are plenty of mail order houses which will send fabric. My personal >favorite is Hang 'em High. Check the address FAQ for their info, as well >as for other sources. Thanks for all the information, I'll take a look through the FAQ and send off some mail... -- ============================================================================ Andrew Morris (The Android) | ptr=(void *)666; /* The pointer from hell. */ | Mail: morrisa@cs.ualberta.ca | I *NEED* a dry field and lots of wind... NOW! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 20:24:34 -1000 From: pwmeek@garnet.msen.com (Peter W. Meek) Message-Id: <2ndqb2$q9n@nigel.msen.com> Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Subject: Re: Fabric sealing... : Okedokie. I don't know much about fabric in general, I just thought there : might be some "magic" stuff out there which was being used... Since you seem to be using 'standard' ripstop, try spray sizing, available at the supermarket. You might have to iron the sail (at a cool setting suitable for nylon). This should replace some of the original 'body' to the fabric. It likely had sizing in it when you bought tne material. : >I don't imagine the wet snow should have had much effect on the kites : >unless you kept them stretched out as they dried (water won't hurt a : >ripstop kite at all, but drying the sail when it's under tension can : >stretch it). : Ok, I hung them up to dry. I guess live and learn comes in at this point... Rewash it. The set caused by drying it under tension will go away. This time dry it loose. (Washing will remove any sizing, so do these things in the proper order -- wash, then size ). --Pete "...a fellow widely considered a half bubble off plumb gets out of much tedious explanation." [William Least Heat Moon in _PrairyErth_] = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 18:55:54 -1000 From: almaniet@delphi.com Message-Id: Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Subject: Re: Fabric sealing... Andrew Morris writes: >Oh, btw, I'm using a standard ripstop nylon which is available through any >fabric store... I have made a few kites out of store bought ripstop. A large delta coyne and a Rok, mainly for stiff wind flying. To clean them I have used acetone first, for heavy stains. Then I soak the sails in a bucket of water and armour all (the car cleaner). Let dry in the wind (again off the frame) avoiding the direct sun light. They look like new and fly great. Watch before soaking for any edge fraying, use fray check first, since soaking the sails will make this worse. Good luck. P.S. try a small piece of your fabric first since not all store bought ripstop is created equal. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =