From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Subject: FAQ Message-ID: <1992Dec5.132919.45412@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 5 Dec 92 19:29:18 GMT Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services I took the liberty of posting this FAQ with 2 of my current recommendations, and did not touch any of the comments made by Ken Yoder and Marty Sasaki. -Paul Kalowski FAQ part 2 - Stunt Kite Reviews One of the most frequently asked questions is "What should I buy..." or "What do people think about kite XYZ..." This posting is an attempt to answer some of those questions. Section 1 answers the question of "what kite do I buy to learn on". Anyone who wishes to add something there with their name one it, please send me a note. Following that is Section 2 containing reviews and comments about many different types of stunt kites. The name of the reviewers follow their comments. If you wish to add some comments, reply to: kyoder@lamar.colostate.edu Hope this helps! Section 1 - Comments to beginners "I would recommend that a person buys a larger delta kite in the $75 to $200 range depending on their budget. Smaller kites take more wind, move quicker, and are more sensitive - all of which makes them hard kites to learn on. A slow moving, precise kite like the Hawaiian Team is a good choice. If you buy a kite at the top end of your budget, I think you will find that it will take you longer to "outgrow" it. NOTE:--I learned on the Hawaiin Team Kite myself, and I teach people how to fly using this kite- it is very, very sturdy.-Paul Kalowski If money is an issue, I would buy a Trlby or Peter Powell diamond. They are easy to learn on and very inexpensive. You can stack them and put on quite a show. You will need someone to help you launch them at first however. Whatever kite you buy, it is best if you can get someone who has experience to help you at first. If that isn't possible, try to pick a day with a medium wind (10-15 mph). Too many people have become frustrated by trying to learn in light winds." - Ken Yoder Section 2 - Reviews The following codes are used to identify the "type" of stunt kite. For example, Hawaiian Team (BIP) would mean the Team could be considered for Beginners, Intermediate, and/or Power flyers. Beginner B Intermediate I Advanced A Power P Speed S Ultralight U Radical R Quadline Q Price codes (suggested retail price) are as follows - $ under $50 $$ $50-$100 $$$ $100-$200 $$$$ $200-$300 $$$$$ over $300 Comments by kite in alphabetical order - Flexifoil (I,P) $$$-$$$$$(price varies with size) Manufacturer: Flexifoil International Materials: Fiberglass spar Reviews: "Pulls hard, moves fast but has a big turning radius. You must think ahead when flying a flex." - Ken Yoder Flexifoil Hot Shot (I,S) $$ Manufacturer: Flexifoil International Materials: Fiberglass spar Reviews: "Smallest Flexifoil available with a 4 foot wingspan. In high winds on short lines this kite is a blast to fly with tight turns and high forward speed. Needs lots of wind to fly well with standard spar. Ultralight spar is available and makes this a moderate wind kite." - Marty Sasaki Hawaiian Spin-Off (I) $$$ Manufacturer: Top of the Line Kites Materials: Fiberglass spars Reviews: "Faster than the Team with a smaller turning radius." - Ken Yoder "The kite that other kites are compared to. One of the most poular stunt kites of all time. In New England, most flyers have one in their bags, so this is a good kite for impromptu team flying." - Marty Sasaki Hawaiian Team (B,I,P) $$$ Manufacturer: Top of the Line Kites Materials: Fiberglass spars Reviews: "Great for precision flying. It's slow speed and precise turns are also good for a beginner. It tends to pull hard however, so it is not for a young person." - Ken Yoder "As it's name would imply, excellant for team flying." - Marty Sasaki "A very sturdy kite, hard to break when learning on." -Paul Kalowski Jabberwocky (A,R,U) $$$$ Manufacturer: Bob Childs Materials: Carrington Ripstop, Advantage graphite spars Reviews: "Light weight, flys well in light wind. The Jabberwocky is capable of both radical tricks and smooth straight line flight. Workmanship is excellant." - Marty Sasaki Katana (A,S,R) $$$$ Manufacturer: Sasaki Kites Materials: Beman Graphite Reviews: "Also known as the MDM-6. Kite was designed for individual ballet and has tunable oversteer. Spins fast. Does tricks. Flyers with Katanas have done well in Eastern League competition." - Marty Sasaki Magnum Opus (A,S,U) $$$$ Manufacturer: Chicago Fire Materials: Beman Graphite or Advantage 2-wrap Carrington Ripstop Wind Range: Beman: 4 to 16 mph Advantage: 3 to 18 mph Span: 10 ft Reviews: "This kite is big, fast, silent and does great snap turns. Great stability during slides (groundwork is great). Excellent Precision. The workmanship is pretty good, and seems very solid. Takes time to put together, with all the 8 battens, 2 camber inducers and 2 standoffs. This is definitely my best kite investment."- Paul Kalowski Mirage (I) $$ Manufacturer: ? Materials: Fiberglass spar Reviews: "These track incredibly straight, turn incredibly tightly, and even make a good ballet kite because they have a wonderful personality (the only problem is that it's very tough to do any groundwork with them). And all of this is for a stack of 3 kites! Jones has a number of different options on his kites. You can buy them in 1, 3, or 6 kite stacks. Single-piece sails with fiberglass frames are only $100 for 3 kites." NBK (R,U) $$$ Manufacturer: Skyward Kites Materials: AFC graphite Reviews: - None at this time - North Shore Radical (R,U) $$$$ Manufacturer: Top of the Line Kites Materials: carbon aluminum (Easton) Reviews: "The only bad thing I know about this kite is that the TOTL team was grounded due to no wind this weekend while Team Ramjet was still flying. With the NSR you can have a family of kites with very similar performance. Use a Kona in light wind, move up to a standard NSR for moderate wind, and use the VIP for heavy wind. Personally, I like other kites much better than the NSR, but Team High Performance won the World Cup last year flying these kites. Scott Augenbaugh (who won practically everything last year) thinks that the NSR is the best kite around." - Marty Sasaki Phantom (U) $$$$ Manufacturer: Materials: Reviews: "All the catalogs say it's great. Made out of some kind of wonder fabric. As mentioned in another note, the "wonder fabric" is Carrington ripstop nylon. As far as the kite itself goes, Phantoms do fly well and have a fairly wide wind range. They are expensive (again in the USA) and are relatively fragile, ie, when you buy a Phantom, buy some replacement sticks at the same time." - Marty Sasaki Phoenix (U,R,A) $$$$ Manufacturer: David Bui- Lenexa, KS Materials: Beman Spars, Carrington ripstop, spectra bridle system Wind range: 0.5 to 25 mph Span: appx. 8 ft Reviews: "This kite weighs appx. 8.5 ounces and has a spectra bridle which can be altered (along with the removal of the outer standoffs) for very light wind flying. This kite does the best sharp snap turns that I have ever seen, and does well in ground work. The kite is easily tuned for fast-to-slow flying, and is very noisy- I fly this kite more then the NSR."- Paul Kalowski Revolution I (R) $$$$ - $220 Manufacturer: Revolution Materials: Advantage graphite Reviews: "The "original" quad. It uses a different technique than a dual line kite and takes some getting use to. The propeller spins and ground action are great. Once you get the hang of it, it is very easy to land and launch. People love to see it stop in midair and fly backwards. Needs a fair amount of wind." - Ken Yoder Revolution II (R) $$$ - $129 Manufacturer: Revolution Materials: Advantage graphite Reviews: "Smaller version of the Rev I. Needs more wind but is quicker and more maneuverable." - Ken Yoder Scorpion (U) $$$$ Manufacturer: Flexifoil International Materials: Reviews: "The Scorpion is manufactured by Cobra, who used to import the Phantom. Cobra's official line is that the quality of the Phantom's was declining and they couldn't get the quantity that was desired. So, Cobra started making the Scorpion. I haven't flown the Scorpion enough to form much of an opinion, but my gut reaction is that it's a nice enough kite, but there are lots of better kites out there, many of them for a lot less money." - Marty Sasaki Skychaser (B) $$ Manufacturer: Peter Powell Materials: Fiberglass spar Reviews: "It seems like a lot of people leap at the Peter Powell Skychaser because it's cute and cheap. It's also a high wind kite with a shocking amount of speed, oversteer (near the bottom of its range) and sensitivity. A fun kite, but I wouldn't want to teach someone to fly with it." - Marty Sasaki Skyburner (I,U) ? Manufacturer: ? Materials: ? Reviews: "A good low wind kite. The ultra-light version does do well in very light wind. The workmanship on the Skyburner is some of the best that you will see." - Marty Sasaki Stinger 1000 (U) $$$ Manufacturer: Materials: Reviews: "Supposed to be a great kite (for the money?) and fly in light winds even though it uses fiberglass spars. Less expensive than most of the other ones here. The Stinger has decent low wind performance, but swapping out the fiberglass for graphite spars will produce a noticeable increase in performance." - Marty Sasaki Team High Fly Graphite (U) $$$$ Manufacturer: High Fly Kite Co. Materials: Carbon/aluminum (Easton) Reviews: "My reading of all the catalogs indicates that this is technically adequate but perhaps boring. This really is a team kite. Team kites stress stability and precision. This kite will not do the tricks that other kites will do, but it will fly a nice straight line, and speed control is easy. You can get Team High Fly kites with an ultra-light two wrap spar." - Marty Sasaki Trlby (B) $ Manufacturer: Trlby Products Materials: Figerglass (solid) Reviews: "A good, cheap beginners diamond. Takes a beating and gives you the feel for flying a stunt kite. Trains or stacks of three or more with their long tails are a great spectator attraction." - Ken Yoder Ultrawing 96 (U) $$$ Manufacturer: Skynasurs Materials: AFC graphite Reviews: "A nice ultralight with good precision. I've only flow on a few times, but it handled smoooooth." - Ken Yoder = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: FAQ Message-ID: <1992Dec6.193817.3852@nic.funet.fi> From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 92 19:38:17 GMT Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Organisation: STACK Finland This is a reply to three articles on the same subject.. In <1992Dec5.132919.45412@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: > >I took the liberty of posting this FAQ with 2 of my current recommendations, >and did not touch any of the comments made by Ken Yoder and Marty Sasaki. > >-Paul Kalowski >... > >Magnum Opus (A,S,U) $$$$ > Manufacturer: Chicago Fire > Materials: Beman Graphite or Advantage 2-wrap > Carrington Ripstop > Wind Range: Beman: 4 to 16 mph > Advantage: 3 to 18 mph > Span: 10 ft > Reviews: > "This kite is big, fast, silent and does great snap turns. > Great stability during slides (groundwork is great). > Excellent Precision. > The workmanship is pretty good, and seems very solid. > Takes time to put together, with all the 8 battens, 2 camber > inducers and 2 standoffs. This is definitely my best kite > investment."- Paul Kalowski > >Phoenix (U,R,A) $$$$ > Manufacturer: David Bui- Lenexa, KS > Materials: Beman Spars, Carrington ripstop, spectra bridle > system > Wind range: 0.5 to 25 mph > Span: appx. 8 ft > Reviews: > "This kite weighs appx. 8.5 ounces and has a spectra bridle > which can be altered (along with the removal of the outer > standoffs) for very light wind flying. This kite does the > best sharp snap turns that I have ever seen, and does well > in ground work. The kite is easily tuned for fast-to-slow > flying, and is very noisy- I fly this kite more then the NSR."- > Paul Kalowski > >... > >I would like to see the inclusion of more kites in the FAQ sheet, so >I decided to offer a list of kites that some people might want to >include. > >Please mail all replies to my account Spaceman@Kuhub.Cc.Ukans.Edu > >To have consistancy, be sure to include the following info: > >Kite Name >Manufacturer: >Materials: i.e. Beman Spars, Carrington ripstop >Wind Range: Wind range you most prefer to fly in (mph please) > Conversion: 1 kph = 0.62 mph > 1 Knot = 1.2 mph >Span: Tip to Tip distance (ft please) > Conversion: 1 meter = 39.4 in = 3.3 ft >Review: > >Have fun with it, >Paul > Previously kite FAQ did not comment on "Wind Range". I believe it was good because of consistency. (It's a well known joke in European kite circuit how the "American mph" and "English mph" differs, especially on SMALL numbers!). FAQ should describe kites, not the skills of kite flyer. By Phoenix entry in FAQ you tell "you most prefer to fly in" 0.5 to 25 mph. (0.5 mph = 0.22 m/s = zero wind.) May I ask: 1. How did you measure 0.5 mph wind speed? Equipment. Measuring height. Averaging. 2. Do you "most prefer to fly" Phoenix indoors, too? 3. Will Phoenix fly in 0.5 mph wind if you stand still? Frankly, _I_ wouldn't "prefer" flying 8 ft, 8.5 oz kite in zero wind. But, I don't know Phoenix? "kph" - do you mean kilometers per hour? I write it km/h, but wind speeds are usually measured by meters/second, m/s. (I know, AKA/STACK rule book made the same mistake. When you Americans start learning international standard units?) I suggest FAQ will use just "ultralight", "light" etc... in describing the suitability to different wind conditions. It is not as "accurate" as 0.1 mph resolution but much less misleading. Instead, spar information could be more precise; e.g. Beman 5.5 mm. It makes a lot of difference with Beman 6.3 mm. Or just Beman? (It is much easier to measure the spar diameter than the wind speed, too :) Because manufacturers will make changes in their designs/materials the FAQ entry should contain a date when it was last updated. I am sorry, if I sound too negative. I just see red, when I see "wind rage" < 2 mph. FAQ is not an advertisement. However, I hope Paul will take care of the FAQ. Smoot Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 1 Apr 93 16:32:41 GMT From: mhatz@nyx.cs.du.edu (Cyber Ranger) Message-ID: <1993Apr1.163241.5968@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Subject: FAQ??? I have searched the rtfm.mit.edu and ftp.uu.net archives looking for the kite faq. Is there such a beast? Can I get a copy e-mailed to me or at least a pointer as to where it is at? Thanks! Mike = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =