Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 16:33:19 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Flying Fighters Andrew Beattie wrote: > An Indian fighter, on 1km of line still darts about, but in the > long term, it won't fall to the ground. So _that's_ how you keep Indian Fighters airborne :-) But how do you get them almost 1 kilometre high in the first place ? My Indian Fighters all spin like high-speed aircraft propellers, about 3 feet ( 1 metre ) above the ground, and they refuse to gain altitude at all ...except _DOWNWARDS_ into the ground if you try to get them to go _UPWARDS_ :-) Don't tell me to watch an experienced Fighter Pilot because I never see _anyone_ here flying a Fighter. The reasons given are: 1) People do not have the patience to master Fighter Flying, and 2) Fighters are difficult to obtain because there is no money to be made from manufacturing and selling Fighter Kites. [ The exception is Rokkakus ( US$ 20 + ) which are flown competitively at New Zealand kiting events ]. Most people watching _my_ attempts at flying Fighters seem to get great amusement from my "performances". They usually respond with an appreciative "Aaaaaaah" when I finally achieve the ultimate whizzing-spin into the ground. At least I do gain their attention ! Success of a kind ! My answer to all this is a TAIL !! ^^^^ As soon as I attach a lightweight tail ( approximately 4 times the length of the kite ) the kites stabilise and I have no problems with spinning. But, as the expert Fighter Pilots' say, the kite slows down and loses a lot of liveliness once you attach a tail. David Gomberg's book, FIGHTER KITES, is full of illustrations of fliers happily flying Indian Fighters without tails.... Soooo easy ! At the Southerly Kite Festival here, in April, I flew an Indian Fighter with a tail for a while. Then I decided to cut the tail length down by half for a trial flight. When I then started propeller-spins, a spectator remarked to my wife: " He needs more tail on that kite. " She replied: "He's only just cut it off." You can't win. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......Clunk !!! *8-) Colin Douthwaite New Zealand 26/6/93 Email address: colin_douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 19:33:31 -1000 From: rock@netcom.com (Anne Rock) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Subject: Re: Flying Fighters Colin Douthwaite (Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz) wrote: : But how do you get them almost 1 kilometre high in the first place ? I write as a beginner....but the basics of "when you pull on the line the kite continues to move in the direction in which it was pointed when you started pulling" and "release tension on the line when the kite isn't moving in the direction you want and be ready to start pulling as soon as (if not just before) the nose is pointing in the direction you want" have worked well. As has a tail :-) I think fighter kites can be very sensitive to imbalance in construction and bridle settings, but I don't have many suggestions to offer. Hold the kite by the bridle and let the kite hang more or less parallel to the ground (maybe just above a table) and see if it looks balanced. For the spins, try adjusting the bridle so the nose is farther forward. I also long-line the start (with the help of a friend) so I get enough altitude to have a (pardon the pun) fighting chance of getting the kite up a ways. : 1) People do not have the patience to master Fighter Flying, and The concentration is a great stress-reducer....like meditation. : 2) Fighters are difficult to obtain because there is no money to be : made from manufacturing and selling Fighter Kites. : [ The exception is Rokkakus ( US$ 20 + ) which are flown : competitively at New Zealand kiting events ]. You might look for "Fighter Kites" by Philippe Gallot. "29 Original designs to make and fly" -- was published in Great Britain as "Making and Flying Fighter Kites" by B.T. Batsford. ISBN 0-312-03964-6. US $12.95 (at least a couple of years ago), published in the U.S. by St.Martin's Press. The kites are both original and based on fighter kites from many cultures, such as Indian, Chilean, Indonesian, Japanese. If you do use the book, stick with the metric measurements and ignore the imperial. There's 5 pages on flying the kites, about 1/3 of that amount is pictures which aren't particularly helpful. I've made a couple and had a good time with them. I haven't seen Dave Gomberg's book yet. Anne rock@netcom.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1993 10:14:53 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Flying Fighters Anne Rock (rock@netcom.com) wrote: CD> But how do you get them almost 1 kilometre high in the first place ? Thanks Anne for the encouragement. It is taking me far longer to get to grips with Flying Fighters than it did with Two Line Stunters. I can understand why people don't persevere with Fighters. They are far less predictable than Stunters and they go "out ot tune" easily. > I think fighter kites can be very sensitive to imbalance in > construction and bridle settings Mairi has been talking to that Fighter Kite Ace, Stafford Wallace of England. [ not to be confused with Tim Wallace of Wanaka, New Zealand, who owns the Warbirds Museum of World War 2 Fighter Aircraft, including flying specimens of the Spitfire, Messerschmidt and Mustang ]. Stafford Wallace corrects Dynamic Imbalance, which causes turning repeatedly in one direction only, or even spinning, by "biting" one side of the bamboo cross spar to weaken it at that side and thereby correct the imbalance. Sounds fascinating ! Most folks refer to Static Balancing, ie hanging the kite (in windless conditions ) above a level surface to see if the wings settle in a horizontal position. At the same time, the angle the kite makes with the horizontal can be checked. This angle can be adjusted by altering the bridle ( tuning ). > I also long-line the start (with the help of a friend) so I get > enough altitude to have a (pardon the pun) fighting chance of > getting the kite up a ways. It's nice to _have_ friends :-) Most times when I fly Fighters I find myself on my own so "long-line starts" are out, but I will give this a try as soon as we have some decent flying weather. It is winter here and the nice days all seem to have Zero wind speed. > You might look for "Fighter Kites" by Philippe Gallot. "29 Original > designs to make and fly" -- was published in Great Britain as > "Making and Flying Fighter Kites" by B.T. Batsford. ISBN 0-312- > 03964-6. US $12.95 (at least a couple of years ago), published in > the U.S. by St.Martin's Press. > I've made a couple and had a good time with them. I haven't seen > Dave Gomberg's book yet. I will add Gallot's book to my list of wants, which are all available from KiteLines. USA. Until I am satisfied with my flying performance I don't intend to attempt making Fighters. The Paper/Bamboo Indian Fighters are so cheap to buy, about US$2 to $8 that it is not worth the trouble unless you really like making your own kites. I have to admit that I prefer to fly than manufacture. Colin Douthwaite New Zealand 27/6/93 Email address: colin_douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1993 23:33:53 -1000 From: M.N.Oakden@durham.ac.uk (Mark N Oakden) Message-Id: Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Flying Fighters Colin Douthwaite writes: >My Indian Fighters all spin like high-speed aircraft propellers, >about 3 feet ( 1 metre ) above the ground It is possible that this is being caused by the kites bow being uneven. Even a bow which is perfectly even and performs beautifully in light winds can start to bend unevenly once its curvature goes beyond a certain point. I have noticed this on a number of my own home-made kites. One solution is to make a slightly heavier bow for the heavier wind conditions ( this will lead to a faster kite though ) or save the fighter kiting for those almost windless days when nothing else will even go up. >It's nice to _have_ friends :-) >Most times when I fly Fighters I find myself on my own so "long-line >starts" are out I have found that long line starts *are* possibly without friends ( at least with sturdier fighters ). With my mylar fighter I use the following technique to relaunch after crashes. First get the kite into a position where it is standing on one of it's leading edges as if it was trying to fly diagonally down into the ground. This can usually be achieved by a pull or a few gentle tugs on the line. Once in this position give a sharp pull on the line - I find that it seems to work best with a long pull almost along the ground - and what should happen is that the kite will slide sideways along the ground and eventually lifts off - flying almost horizontally a few inches above ground. Then give the kite some slack and hope that it spins into some direction vaguely upward then tug again to gain some altitude. I have used this technique successfully with both indian type fighters and other designs (from Phillipe Gallot's excellent book) on a cut grass surface. I don't know if it would work on longer grass but sand should be OK if you can live with a little leading edge abrasion :-) +----------------------- KITE HEALTH WARNING --------------------------+ | | | It's probably not a good idea to try this with a tissue paper | | fighter though. (I have done it without any damage but I wouldn't | | like to recommend something which might damage someones kite. | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Good luck, Mark -- M.N.Oakden@durham.ac.uk | Centre for Particle Theory, | "Sparrows in eaves, 19681::MNO | University of Durham, | mice in ceiling - | Durham, DH1 3LH, UK. | celestial music." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 01:39:31 -1000 From: lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) Message-Id: Organization: Forestry Canada - Petawawa National Forestry Institute Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: >My Indian Fighters all spin like high-speed aircraft propellers, >about 3 feet ( 1 metre ) above the ground, and they refuse to gain >altitude at all ...except _DOWNWARDS_ into the ground if you try to >get them to go _UPWARDS_ :-) Sounds to me like the cross-brace is too stiff for the wind you're trying to fly in. The key to flying fighters is to match that brace to the wind so that it will spin if the line is not under much tension, but that when you pull on it the cross-brace will flex enough to cause the kite to become stable and move in the direction it is pointed. ---------- Larry Marshall lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca Forestry Canada (613) 589-2880 Petawawa National Forestry Institute (613) 589-2275 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 01:45:41 -1000 From: lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) Message-Id: Organization: Forestry Canada - Petawawa National Forestry Institute Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: >Most times when I fly Fighters I find myself on my own so "long-line >starts" are out, but I will give this a try as soon as we have some >decent flying weather. It is winter here and the nice days all seem >to have Zero wind speed. A great way to fly fighters is from a very large spool. I've made them roughly 10-12" in diameter with a 1" dowel running through it nd out each end to act as handles. If you have such a rig you can literally spin the spool hard and take up a pile of line. Letting line out is done with the reverse process. This provides super control of fighters and makes them easy to launch by yourself. All you do is set the kite against something, run out some line, and then give the spool a spin. The kite will jump into the air and you're flying. >Until I am satisfied with my flying performance I don't intend to >attempt making Fighters. The Paper/Bamboo Indian Fighters are so >cheap to buy, about US$2 to $8 that it is not worth the trouble >unless you really like making your own kites. Hmmm... where are you buying these? The only commercial ones I've seen didn't have bamboo bracing so I passed. ---------- Larry Marshall lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca Forestry Canada (613) 589-2880 Petawawa National Forestry Institute (613) 589-2275 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 03:59:54 -1000 From: ddr@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Douglas Rogers) Message-Id: Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In article , Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: > > Most times when I fly Fighters I find myself on my own so "long-line > starts" are out, but I will give this a try as soon as we have some > decent flying weather. It is winter here and the nice days all seem > to have Zero wind speed. I wonder if this is your problem, fighters don't like a lot of wind. Its great fun to get a fighter out when nothing else will fly and ease it up a few hundred feet. Oh yes, different kites fly differently because of the balance, and yes, flying fighters out of the hand is hard. I strongly recomend you slowly cut the tail length down, and work in light winds with no clever dicks around giving you good advice who don't know what a fighter kite is. You need to put a bow into the backbone, otherwise the kite ccan get parallel to the wind and stay there. Curve the front of the kite against the top of your head (good radius so it doesnt break it). If the bridle hasn't been set or even supplied (this is the way they are sold in India) then you will have to learn about bridling. Personally, I would recommend you get hold of a Vic's fighter, didn't I see someone say he is making them again for direct order? -- ============================================================================= Douglas Rogers MAIL: ddr@uk.ac.ed.dcs Tel: +44 (0)31-650 5172 (direct dial) Fax: +44 (0)31-667 7209 =============== So long and thanks for all the fish ========================= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 10:14:11 -1000 From: ces1at@surrey.ac.uk (Andy Tate) Message-Id: Organization: University of Surrey, Dept Chem & Proc Eng,UK Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In article lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes: >Newsgroups: rec.kites >Path: uos-ee!uknet!pipex!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!pnfi!lmarshal >From: lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) >Subject: Re: Flying Fighters >Message-ID: >Organization: Forestry Canada - Petawawa National Forestry Institute >References: >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 11:39:31 GMT >Lines: 19 >In Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: >>My Indian Fighters all spin like high-speed aircraft propellers, >>about 3 feet ( 1 metre ) above the ground, and they refuse to gain >>altitude at all ...except _DOWNWARDS_ into the ground if you try to >>get them to go _UPWARDS_ :-) >Sounds to me like the cross-brace is too stiff for the wind you're trying to fly in. >The key to flying fighters is to match that brace to the wind so that it will >spin if the line is not under much tension, but that when you pull on it the >cross-brace will flex enough to cause the kite to become stable and move in the >direction it is pointed. Its important to note if they always spin in the same direction. If they do then the kite is out of balance (dymanic as mentioned on another post) and you at the least need to weaken one side of the cross spar, maybe biting it in Stafford Wallace form. If they spin in alternate ways then its probably the bridle (again mentioned in another post) and you could experiment with MINOR adjustments. For this I recommend putting a larks head knot (what else for a kite) in the top or bottom leg of the bridle and placing a convienient piece of grass stalk in it. The knot shortens that leg. This has the advantage of being easily reversible and minutely adjustable (differnt number & size of grass [ or matchstick]). I have used the above myself just to experiment with what effects bridle adjustments would have on a particular kite in a particular wind to great success. Adjustments all the way from ultra stable (knot in bottom) where it does that 'sideways wobble' to hype spin inclined (knot in top) such that I could only long launch it. Persevere with Indians they can be so relaxing to fly. Find someone with a well set up one (maybe at a festival) and see if they are willing to let you have a go. Andy Tate... _____________________________________________________________________________ _/ _/_/ Dr A.H.J. Tate _/ _/ Dept Chem & Proc Eng, Email: ces1at@surrey.ac.uk _/_/_/_/ University of Surrey, Tel: +44 483 509259 _/ _/ _/ Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH Fax: +44 483 303807 _/ _/ _/ ndy _/ ate _____________________________________________________________________________ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:54:21 -1000 From: puc@aber.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) Message-Id: <1993Jun30.085421.19878@aber.ac.uk> Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In article Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: > >Andrew Beattie wrote: > >> An Indian fighter, on 1km of line still darts about, but in the >> long term, it won't fall to the ground. Hmm seems that this post passed me by. I agree though, if atall possible get these kites atleast 200ft asap. If you try flying with shorter lines then you have no time to correct. If you have no assistant, unwind 100ft of line, tie the kite to it, walk downwind and place kite face up nose downwind. Back at the reel, tug the line and the fighter will shoot up. Let out more line and the kite will spin and lose height. > >So _that's_ how you keep Indian Fighters airborne :-) > >But how do you get them almost 1 kilometre high in the first place ? > >My Indian Fighters all spin like high-speed aircraft propellers, >about 3 feet ( 1 metre ) above the ground, and they refuse to gain >altitude at all ...except _DOWNWARDS_ into the ground if you try to >get them to go _UPWARDS_ :-) If you time it right, you may be able to tug line as the kite starts to point up. However, what you want is a slow spinning kite for learning. > >Don't tell me to watch an experienced Fighter Pilot because I never >see _anyone_ here flying a Fighter. > >The reasons given are: > >1) People do not have the patience to master Fighter Flying, and > >2) Fighters are difficult to obtain because there is no money to be > made from manufacturing and selling Fighter Kites. > [ The exception is Rokkakus ( US$ 20 + ) which are flown > competitively at New Zealand kiting events ]. I started flying fighters about 2 weeks ago, I bought several at a festival cos they were cheap and looked nice. I resisted pressure >From the wife to leave them on the wall and tried flying. After several crashes, I finally got to keeping the thing in the air- much more satisfying than flying stunters. Now I can steer the kite pretty much where I want and am practising "balloon busting". Cheap fighters range from 0.35 GB pounds (tissue/bamboo) to around 5.0 pounds (mylar or polyester/bamboo/fglass). Ripstop kites can fetch 15-30 pounds. > >Most people watching _my_ attempts at flying Fighters seem to get >great amusement from my "performances". >They usually respond with an appreciative "Aaaaaaah" when I finally >achieve the ultimate whizzing-spin into the ground. >At least I do gain their attention ! Success of a kind ! > Tip: make sure you have loads of free line on the ground, if the kite dives and you cant lrt out slack then its down. If line becomes scarce, pull it in as the kite is moving >My answer to all this is a TAIL !! > ^^^^ >As soon as I attach a lightweight tail ( approximately 4 times the >length of the kite ) the kites stabilise and I have no problems with >spinning. But, as the expert Fighter Pilots' say, the kite slows >down and loses a lot of liveliness once you attach a tail. > >David Gomberg's book, FIGHTER KITES, is full of illustrations of >fliers happily flying Indian Fighters without tails.... Soooo easy ! > > >At the Southerly Kite Festival here, in April, I flew an Indian >Fighter with a tail for a while. Then I decided to cut the tail >length down by half for a trial flight. > >When I then started propeller-spins, a spectator remarked >to my wife: > >" He needs more tail on that kite. " > >She replied: "He's only just cut it off." > > >You can't win. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......Clunk !!! *8-) > > > >Colin Douthwaite >New Zealand >26/6/93 >Email address: colin_douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz > Persevere, perhaps get some slower fighters (ripstpo) Paul (puc@decb.aber.ac.uk) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 22:25:48 -1000 From: allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au (Allan Charlton) Message-Id: Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, ACUS Subject: Re: Flying Fighters I just came back from a long weekend in Melbourne, where I was lucky enough to spend some time with Les Newbold, and Anglo-Indian who claims to have been flying Indian kites for 70 years. Les gave me the spine and the spar from an Indian that had torn its canopy, and I intend to make a new fighter with them. One of the interesting things about them is that they are bent. They have been shaped by the maker, and the curve is set by heating the bamboo with a candle, explaining the black marks on the bamboo. It seems to me that perhaps Colin's problem is insufficient bow in the spar, and perhaps a lack of bow in the spine. Before he flies, Les estimates the strength of the wind and then adjusts the bow of the spine and the spar by bending the kite over his head (which has a convenient curved shape). And Les does that _every time_ he goes out. Maybe it's worth a try ... Allan Charlton allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 16:47:05 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Flying Fighters Allan Charlton (allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au) wrote: > It seems to me that perhaps Colin's problem is insufficient bow in > the spar, and perhaps a lack of bow in the spine. Before he flies, > Les estimates the strength of the wind and then adjusts the bow of > the spine and the spar by bending the kite over his head (which has > a convenient curved shape). And Les does that _every time_ he goes out. > > Maybe it's worth a try ... Someone else also made this point. Last Saturday I tried the "head- bending" trick on the spines and found that stability did increase and allowed easier self-launching by hand. The head-bending was less successful on the cross-spar because it is already curved, in the vertical-plane, during the construction of the kite. I think a different technique is needed to put a horizontal-plane bow into the already bowed cross-spar. I did a little gentle bending of the cross-spar, with the fingers, but you have to be so careful due to the fragile nature of Bamboo/Paper. My experience with Paper/Bamboo Fighters suggests that learners should start with a more robust Fighter ( assuming they are available ). At least the _Sail_should be something stronger than paper ( lightweight plastic; stiffened nylon or polyester ). Perhaps spars should still be Bamboo because I am not sure how well you can put a bow into Fibreglass or Graphite spars by bending kites round your head. > Les estimates the strength of the wind and then adjusts the bow of > the spine and the spar by bending the kite over his head (which has > a convenient curved shape). I wonder if it is best to have a Big Head ! Less strain on the spar !! :-) :-) Colin Douthwaite New Zealand 7/7/93 Email address: colin_douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 10:56:04 -1000 From: wayned@sequent.com (Wayne Downer) Message-Id: <1993Jul7.205604.16543@sequent.com> Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Subject: Re: Flying Fighters It appears that this didn't provide the help that Colin asked for, but after I sent it to him he suggested that I post it, so here it is... As has been stated before, if the kite spins in only one direction, then you should check its balance. However if it turns both ways then understanding the interaction of the bridal setting with stability is of value. A fighter spins when it is relatively flat to the wind, and is stable or tracks in a direction when it has a sufficient dihedral angle (the left and right tips angled back from the center spar). Basically you want the pressure from the wind to provide the kite with a stable dihedral angle when the line is not being played, such that if you slack the line the kite will flatten and begin to spin. When you pull in line during a spin, the dihedral angle increases which causes the kite to track in the direction it is currently pointed. Adjusting the bridle point down (increasing the angle of attack), causes the wind to create a larger dihedral angle and greater stability. As you would expect, adjusting the bridle point up does just the opposite. If the bridle point is set too far up for the given wind, the kite will not be stable when the line is not being played. If the bridle point is set too far down, it may be difficult to get the kite to spin when you slack the line. While experienced fliers sometimes desire that the kite be statically unstable, it is definitely recommended to have it statically stable for learning. Note that the setting where stability occurs is dependent on the strength of the wind (the lighter the wind the lower the bridle setting), and that a relatively light steady wind is highly desirable for learning (gusts can make the kite turn when you didn't want it to). You'll notice that as the kite rises, the stability decreases since the angle of attack into the wind decreases. This effect is usually not a problem and I believe that it is responsible for the observation that a fighter on a long line tends to stay up (the kite tends to point up due to the center spar bow and the angle of attack increases as the kite comes closer to the ground, thus making it most stable near the ground when pointing up). By the way, I own two Vic's Fighters which I love. They have mylar sails and fiberglass cross spars so they're pretty durable, but if they're being made again, I haven't figured out where to get them. In any case, I'd also recommend looking into the "Hata" from "Into The Wind" in Bolder, CO (800/541-0314 or 303/449-5356 for international orders). It's a great fighter for learning on. It's reasonably priced (~$12 US), and it has a nylon sail so it's even more rugged and less prone to going out of balance. I hope this is of some help. Wayne Downer Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. wayned@sequent.com 15450 S.W. Koll Parkway 503.578-4083 voice Beaverton, OR 97006-5903 503.578-7569 FAX = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 12:42:40 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <21fjh0$3da@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: Flying Fighters In article <1993Jul7.205604.16543@sequent.com> wayned@sequent.com (Wayne Downer) writes: [...] Thanks for the info on fighter tuning. I don't fly too often, but it's the kind of thing that's still interesting reading/helpful to have percolating in the back of your head... >By the way, I own two Vic's Fighters which I love. They have mylar sails >and fiberglass cross spars so they're pretty durable, Interesting...my Vic's has lightly bowed metal (can't recall if they're steel or aluminum) spreaders. The kite came with 3 such cross spars in 2 different weights, with directions on using heavier spars and/or combinations of spars to tune the kite for higher wind. Mine's one of the old kites, but I'm not really sure when it was made. >In any case, I'd >also recommend looking into the "Hata" from "Into The Wind" in Bolder, CO An acquaintance of mine who's been flying fighters for years bought a Hata last fall and he absolutely loves it. I think that's the one I see him flying most often these days. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ | |SAFH Lite [tm] | I am what I am and you are you too./ Do you like | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | what you see? Do you like yourself?" --N. Cherry | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 10:06:57 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jul8.200906.2250@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Flying Fighters My fighers use bamboo for the spine and either graphite or fiberglass for the cross spar. I found that I couldn't shape bamboo consistantly and that the graphite/fiberglass was much better than any bamboo spar that *I* could fashion. I put a bow into the spine near where the top should be. I don't fine tune this bow, I put a good amount of it before putting it onto the kite. Bamboo can be easily bent by heating it and then gently pushing it into shape. Then remove the heat and allow it to cool. I use a candle flame because the soot gives me an indication of how even I'm heating the bamboo. When I have an even light coating of soot, I bend it. I hold the finished kite by it's tail pointing straight down with the bow away from me, above my head. I then drop the kite. If the kite swoops down and lands on the ground flat, then the bow is just right. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 08:45:30 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Flying Fighters Wayne Downer (wayned@sequent.com) wrote: > It appears that this didn't provide the help that Colin asked for, > but after I sent it to him he suggested that I post it, so here it > is... I have not yet tried any of the things mentioned in your excellent article. I just thought that your article was so informative that it ought to be posted publicly in rec.kites. As you probably know there are an estimated 14,000 readers of rec.kites and I feel sure many of them will have enjoyed what you have written. It may take me a little time to make full use of the information you have given - I am at the "head-bending" stage at present and the mid-winter conditions give me limited flying opportunities to test all the ideas which have been posted on flying Fighters. Colin Douthwaite New Zealand 10/7/93 Email address: colin_douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =