Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 18:09:00 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Frank Kenisky & Politics Frank Kenisky wrote: > I am concerned with proposing changes that will increase the > perception and acceptance of kiting than qualifying/ranking > systems. This is because I feel that kiting (all types) has the > potential of becoming a bona-fide big business sport. Er....exactly why does kiting have to become a " bona-fide big business sport " ? Many of us out here are probably quite happy to have kiting as a simple pastime and an enjoyable hobby. Once something becomes a "sport" these days it seems to become competitive, commercial, political, and enjoyable (?) only for fewer and fewer participants. Also some people seem to derive their enjoyment from ruling, regulating and controlling other folks' lives - kiting is no exception. It was thought provoking to see Val Govig head her editorial column "For Heaven's Sake" in the Summer-Fall 1993, VOL.10 NO.2 edition of KiteLines Magazine. Her editorial was all about kiting politics but she gave no clues about who or what had caused her to write that editorial. Hmmmm, I wonder what it was - something on the American scene no doubt. It certainly left me puzzled and unenlightened. I, for one, am thankful that, so far, New Zealand kite festivals have enjoyment and fun flying as their underlying principles rather than competitive sport and rigid structures and rules. I guess that may change because "sport and recreation" have become big business throughout the world. It sometimes seems to be a form of modern warfare. Sad ? Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:34:26 -1000 From: SWRIGHT@VAX170.SHRMED.COM (Skip Wright) Message-Id: <772144466.670000.SWRIGHT@VAX170.SHRMED.COM> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: RE: Frank Kenisky & Politics In his recent post, Colin Douthwaite writes: > Frank Kenisky wrote: > > I am concerned with proposing changes that will increase the > > perception and acceptance of kiting than qualifying/ranking > > systems. This is because I feel that kiting (all types) has the > > potential of becoming a bona-fide big business sport. Although attributed to Frank, the quote is mine. I was relating to Frank that I understood his concern re: the AKA Qualifying System, but I am more concerned with growth of kiting. > Er....exactly why does kiting have to become a " bona-fide big > business sport " ? It seems to me that many of the recent advances in kiting (especially, but not entirely, those related to sport kites) have been "borrowed" >From other (more business-wise successful) endeavors. I would point to framing advances, such as fiberglass and graphite as examples. These have revolutionized kitemaking, but have stemmed from developments in other industries (fishing, archery, not to mention NASA, etc.). I believe that it is in the best interest of kite development to have a serious, successful kite industry that has the means of doing development and fabrication of kite-specific equipment. To be sure, there are a lot of small companies that can make a living solely on developing and selling kites, but as recent threads here seem to show, distributors need to consider other non-kite items, not to "branch out" but merely to survive. I, for one, think it would be fine to walk into a large (and local) kite store stocking hundreds of different types and models of kites, varying from $19.95 to several hundred dollars, talk to knowledgable sales peole and see demonstrations. > Many of us out here are probably quite happy to have kiting as a > simple pastime and an enjoyable hobby. Once something becomes a > "sport" these days it seems to become competitive, commercial, > political, and enjoyable (?) only for fewer and fewer participants. > Also some people seem to derive their enjoyment from ruling, > regulating and controlling other folks' lives - kiting is no exception. I agree, big business (and politics) have some drawbacks. I would say that to me, the advantages far outweigh those drawbacks. The fact that kiting can be enjoyed as a simple pastime will not change, just as playing soccer, fishing, playing table tennis, etc. can still be enjoyed as a pastime under big business. Advantages such as better/cheaper equipment, more participants, prime time (and accurate) video coverage, etc. are a good bargin. > It was thought provoking to see Val Govig head her editorial column > "For Heaven's Sake" in the Summer-Fall 1993, VOL.10 NO.2 edition of > KiteLines Magazine. Her editorial was all about kiting politics but > she gave no clues about who or what had caused her to write that > editorial. Hmmmm, I wonder what it was - something on the American > scene no doubt. It certainly left me puzzled and unenlightened. I don't remember this article, I'll go back and dig it out. > I, for one, am thankful that, so far, New Zealand kite festivals > have enjoyment and fun flying as their underlying principles rather > than competitive sport and rigid structures and rules. I don't fly competitively, and I certainly enjoy introducing my three-year-old daughter to kite flying. I also enjoyed dragging my wife to Wildwood, NJ for the East Coast Stunt Kite Championship. The people I met were very nice, and the flying was great! I watch my videos every couple of weeks. Although there was competition, underlying personal enjoyment and fun was shown by the competitors throughout the routines. > I guess that may change because "sport and recreation" have become > big business throughout the world. It sometimes seems to be a form > of modern warfare. Sad ? Yes, I agree that sport and competition in some instances have become a form of economical warfare. Some sports have sidestepped this pitfall (again, archery, table tennis) to a large extent and are fairly successful businesses (they also show up as Olympic sports). Well, sorry to go on, but I felt I should respond to my quote. I'm going home to ask my daughter of there's enough wind to fly today (;-)). Skip ======================================================================= Skip Wright SWRIGHT@VAX170.SHRMED.COM SMS Malvern, PA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 10:47:25 -1000 From: Frank Kenisky Message-Id: Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Subject: Re: Frank Kenisky & Politics Frank Kenisky wrote: > I am concerned with proposing changes that >will increase the perception and acceptance of >kiting than qualifying/ranking systems. This is >because I feel that kiting (all types) has the >potential of becoming a bona-fide big business >sport. No not really, Frank did not write this. Please re- read your postings again. Although I do support the idea. >Er....exactly why does kiting have to become a " >bona-fide big business sport " ? Before there is any attempt to answer this question by anyone I cannot see the expression on your face so the only thing I can tell is that you are either truly not sure of what you are asking or you are being sarcastic. If you are being the latter which from reading the rest of your response you do in fact meet the critria. You are what we refer to in the theater as a pre-madona. Not only that but a mindless thoughtless inconsiderate full of yourself wad of worm barf pre-madona. >Many of us out here are probably quite happy to >have kiting as a simple pastime and an enjoyable >hobby. Once something becomes a "sport" these >days it seems to become competitive, >commercial, political, and enjoyable (?) only for >fewer and fewer participants. Did you just crawl out of a cave? In case you didn't know there has been a recreational sport going on around you for quite some time. >Also some people seem to derive their >enjoyment from ruling, regulating and controlling >other folks' lives - kiting is no exception. Okay so what's your point? You posted your message as Frank Kenisky & Politics. Do you have a point? Or is it just the one on the top of your head? >It was thought provoking to see Val Govig head >her editorial column "For Heaven's Sake" in the >Summer-Fall 1993, VOL.10 NO.2 edition of >KiteLines Magazine. Her editorial was all about >kiting politics but she gave no clues about who >or what had caused her to write that editorial. Let me give it a shot my spelunker friend. You see, several years ago Robert Lorera had been running a kite festival (sport kite competition) in Hawaii. (By the way Hawaii is now part of the United States.) About two years ago Alan Nagao proposed to have an event the week prior to Roberts'. There were some heated arguments of which I know nothing about or care to take sides with. Both had very good pros and cons. Personally, I'm planning a trip next year to make both. >Hmmmm, I wonder what it was - something on >the American scene no doubt. It certainly left me >puzzled and unenlightened. Two emotions at once, no wonder you've been away so long. >I, for one, am thankful that, so far, New Zealand >kite festivals have enjoyment and fun flying as >their underlying principles rather than >competitive sport and rigid structures and rules. That's great ole chap but us uncivilized american bloks thought there would be a bit of a need to develop rules. Accidents and all, insurance that bit. >I guess that may change because "sport and >recreation" have become big business >throughout the world. It sometimes seems to be >a form of modern warfare. Sad ? It's called survival. You see, without money events in the US go broke. When they go broke they have lost money. When they loose money they no longer exist. Events in the US are required by the very nature of the capitaliztic beast to seek sponsorship from private organizations and corporations for money. I know it is a sad thing. But you know what is even sadder, is the thought is you flying your kite in your cave all alone. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:23:19 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Frank Kenisky & Politics Frank Kenisky (fkenisky@delphi.com) wrote: CD> Frank Kenisky wrote: CD> This is because I feel that kiting (all types) has the potential CD> of becoming a bona-fide big business sport. FK> No not really, Frank did not write this. Please re-read your FK> postings again. Apologies for the wrong attribution. The lighting isn't very good in my cave. [:-Q FK> Although I do support the idea. I thought you might. ;-) [ sarcastic emoticon ]. CD> Er....exactly why does kiting have to become a "bona-fide big CD> business sport " ? FK> Before there is any attempt to answer this question by anyone I FK> cannot see the expression on your face so the only thing I can FK> tell is that you are either truly not sure of what you are FK> asking or you are being sarcastic. Here is the expression on my face when I wrote the question: :-( > If you are being the latter which from reading the rest of your > response you do in fact meet the criteria. :-) FK> In case you didn't know there has been a recreational sport FK> going on around you for quite some time. That doesn't make it desirable, or worthy of support - remember the reference is to "a bona-fide big business sport". :-( FK> I know it is a sad thing. But you know what is even sadder, is FK> the thought of you flying your kite in your cave all alone. Come and try it. There's not much to beat the fun of being a Kite- flying Troglodyte. ( BTW that isn't another StuntKite manoeuvre.) Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 11:34:48 -1000 From: Frank Kenisky Message-Id: Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Subject: Re: Frank Kenisky & Politics !!!WARNING!!! Pass this posting up if you are weak or not motivated to discuss or read about the AKA Ranking/Qualifying System. Also, if you are stoned, drunk or have just awaken from a deep sleep you may find yourself reading the same line twice. awaken from a deep sleep you may find yourself reading the same line twice. got ya! In a past posting Brian Dockter writes: Brian Dockter>I've always felt that the Novice class should be designed to encourage and nurture new and beginning pilots. This is best accomplished when the focus is local (regional). Once they have developed some experience (and hopefully some maturity), then they are ready to compete at a more competitive level (maybe even nationally). Frank>This is a very good point. If flyers are unable to attend the Nationals until they are Experienced flyers (or even Intermediate), won't at least some of that enthusiasm that they would have had as a Novice still be there? If so, won't this make the Experienced/Masters flyers more likely to be there to compete? Just from a demographic stand point, of which I do not have all the facts, [but am sure that my estimates are not too far off], most serious flyers who begin in the novice class, learn enough technique to move, quickly into the Experience class. I think we are headed in the same direction but from two different points of view. One way to eliminate the mass of contestants at the annual convention is to limit the competition to Experience or Masters class. This is not to say that I am not opposed to allowing all classes to compete. By allowing all classes to compete will reduce the number of contestants in each category. Brian Dockter>eliminate Novice competition. Brian Dockter>...Wouldn't it be useful if the Novice class was a place where beginning flyers could nurture this sense of "self competition" without feeling threatened. Even if you feel that competition against another person is more important, why not have a place where you could get a feel for what's expected of you before you move into a class with nationwide competition. Frank>Regardless of how many different categories, [although I would perfer only Experienced and Masters] are allowed to compete at the AKA convention the AKA must find a fair method to reduce the number of competitors to a managable number. All events should have an equal opportunity to qualify contestants. All events are not equal. The system now considers all events equal but the formula, when put to a practical test, proves different. The number of contestants competing throughout the conferences varies. The average number of contestants competing on the West and East Coast is between 50 and 60 contestants. [This includes all categories] Whereas the central area has an average of between 25 and 30 contestants. In order to allow contestants, who take the time to travel the AKA modified the old system to include 2 of the 5 top scores to come >From outside the conference you reside in. They also wanted to include international guests so they offered to allow, individuals to declare which conference they wanted to compete in for the following year. The other issue with the system as a ranking/qualifying system is that it has limitations on the accuracy of how an individual placed at a contest. (see AKA Quiz) Take for example two separate instances: Three individuals of equal skill compete in Individual Precision within a field of 33 contestants. The sanctioned event, according to AKA International Sport Kite Rules must be divided into 3 separate heats. There are now three heats of 11 contestants each. In the event there are three different teams of judges. Each of these three individuals of equal skill all place 4th in their heat. Individual number one scores a 8.5, individual number two scores 8.0 and individual number three scores 7.5. What is the AKA Ranking/Qualifying System score for the three 4th place contestants? The system cannot score below the finals. The teams of judges are different, every team of judges will not judge the same. Therefore, it would not be fair to allow points to those contestants. Just out of curiosity I would like to analyze the algorythm which is being used to separate the heats for the AKA Ranking/Qualifying system. (I think I remember the name Darrin Skinner being mentioned.) Why not allow all events to qualify the top 300f contestants. Then, whenever the ending date is, determine the number of contestants you can manage within a reasonable timeframe and limit regristration to that number. If you have time for 50 contestants then limit the number to that amount. The first 50 contestants are registered and can compete. (I really don't think, [this is only my opinion] that too many novice and intermediate contestants will register early to compete.) This would be a system which would be fair to the contestant and the events. Currently, if an individual from outside the U.S. or event from another conference wanted to qualify within this conference they in could, without ever competing here. Take the averages again. There are four categories. Therefore, divide the highest average by 4 to determine the average number of points obtainable within an event. East and West Coast = 60/4 = 15; Central area = 30/4 = 7. An individual who competes outside the declared conference could theoretically earn 30 points. An individual who compete inside their conference theoretically will only earn 14 points at two events. They would have to go to three more events just to beat that individual who may never compete within the declared conference. I have heard that the AKA board of directors is looking into the problem. It makes me feel warm all over. Thanks for your input Brian. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =