Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 05:27:54 -1000 From: samef@shout.net (Sam Francis) Message-Id: <446b5s$53t@treflan.shout.net> Organization: Shouting Ground Technologies Subject: re:Gary's 12-foot Rokkaku kobemark@eworld.com (Kobe Mark) wrote: >From: Gary Mark aka Kobemark@eworld.com - 416-485-2488 clip >I'm into stunt and fighter kites, and would like to learn how to make a >12-foot Rokkaku as well. Gary, Damn! You're talking about 100 sq.ft! (4-5-6 formula) Who's flying this thing anyway? Ok, you'll need 5-600 lb. flying line. Using Glasforms fiberglass tubing--- The vertical spar should be FL610 The horizontals can be FL414...FL505 would be better (these are with a six-legged bridle) I'd use 1oz ripstop Roks are generally built using either a 3-4-5 or 4-5-6 formula. Say you choose the 4-5-6. The center section is 4 units high...your units in this case are 2 ft. or 8 ft. high. The width is 5 units across or 10 feet wide. The height you chose is 12 ft or 6 units of 2 ft. Follow me? BIG ROK! E-mail me if you need more info...hope this helps. Good luck, Sam = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:56:48 -1000 From: griebeno@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <44l72g$27h@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Gary's 12-foot Rokkaku Hi, I am myself right now building a 12 foot Rokkaku - thats not even 4 m high. Big??? I don't think so. That's just a bit on the largere size for Rokk's. And the pull is also not too bad compared to a big parafoil or flowform. Spars, 22 mm for the center, 16-18 mm for the cross-spars. Happy lifting Kai = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:52:35 -1000 From: samef@shout.net (Sam Francis) Message-Id: <44p29p$357@treflan.shout.net> Organization: Shouting Ground Technologies Subject: Re: Gary's 12-foot Rokkaku griebeno@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kai Griebenow) wrote: >I am myself right now building a 12 foot Rokkaku - thats not even 4 m high. >Big??? I don't think so. That's just a bit on the largere size for Rokk's. It will pull like a locomotive. And that's fine. Just understand that a 6 ft Rok is only about 25 sq ft. Make a Rok 12 ft and the sq ft comes up to 100. We just scaled it up 400ot 200 >And the pull is also not too bad compared to a big parafoil or flowform. Parafoils and flowforms don't compare sq ft to sq ft anyway. Flowforms are really nice kites. But not a good choice for a heavy lifter. >Spars, 22 mm for the center, 16-18 mm for the cross-spars. Who makes a 22 mm, or a 16 mm spar? The spar selection I gave was from Kevin Shannon's spar charts and recommendations. They are correct. Kevin is considered to make more Roks every year than any other US kitemaker.(Carlisle Kiteworks) You are *right now* building it? Okay. And the pull is not too bad? Help me out here?? Anyway, have fun. (stacks are neat too) Sam = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 03:33:47 -1000 From: griebeno@athena.mit.edu (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <44u2fr$7pi@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Gary's 12-foot Rokkaku > |> >I am myself right now building a 12 foot Rokkaku - thats not even 4 m high. |> >Big??? I don't think so. That's just a bit on the largere size for Rokk's. |> |> It will pull like a locomotive. And that's fine. Just understand |> that a 6 ft Rok is only about 25 sq ft. Make a Rok 12 ft and the sq |> ft comes up to 100. We just scaled it up 400ot 200 |> I am aware about the fact that the sail area increases with the square of the dimensions. But 12 foot is really not too large. I think a lot of Reza's Rokks have about that hight (maybe slightly less). My normal standard size is about 8-9 foot high and I use ProSpar Comp 19 and 16 in them - that limt's them somehow to wind conditions on the lower side of the business. 22 mm is nearly an inch (about 8-9/10) (1 inch = 25.4 mm), 16-18 mm is about 6-7/10 of an inch. These sizes are common in europe, nearly any kite-store in Germany I know has them. With a seven point bridle you can reduce the size of the spars somewhat more (instead of the 6-point one additional string to the middle of the center spar). |> >And the pull is also not too bad compared to a big parafoil or flowform. |> |> Parafoils and flowforms don't compare sq ft to sq ft anyway. |> Flowforms are really nice kites. But not a good choice for a heavy |> lifter. I agree totally. It will pull like a locomotive though. Not too bad doesn't mean one should fly that Rokk out of the hand. I strongly recommend for kites of such size to first lay out the line and use severall dog-sticks on the ground arranged in a triangle or square. Go around a couple of times with the line - that will distribute the force from somwhat vertical to something horizontal. You can easily give line behind such a construction. It also helps bringing the kite down because you can just clip the line under a dogstick and proceed this until the kite is down with as much rest inbetween as you need ;-). |> |> >Spars, 22 mm for the center, 16-18 mm for the cross-spars. |> |> Who makes a 22 mm, or a 16 mm spar? |> The spar selection I gave was from Kevin Shannon's spar charts and |> recommendations. They are correct. |> Kevin is considered to make more Roks every year than any other US |> kitemaker.(Carlisle Kiteworks) I agree. Kevin really makes a lot of Rokks, and he makes them very well! |> You are *right now* building it? Okay. And the pull is not too bad? |> Help me out here?? I am building it right now - it's not so much the construction that I am dealing with though. I am putting an application on it consisting of (I don't know exactly because I am working with such things like a painter and add here and there) 1000-2000 pieces. The top will have a patchwork with about 50 pieces. This did cost me already altogether 80 hours I think. It's nearly finished now and I am going to do serious reinforcements then. I will present the kite for the first time next year at the Smithsonian. Until than it will be at home in a bag. Likely, this will not be the kite that I enter in competition there. (P.S. I have pictures on the 1995 Smithsonian in my Web-pages, see below). |> Anyway, have fun. (stacks are neat too) I have a stack of 8 Rokk's, 6 foot high. That pull's really! That's double of the sail area of a 12 foot Rokk, and they don't fly as efficient in a stack as they do single -> more drag! One time the stack pulled me over a flying field ;-). I didn't ancer it to the ground like described above.... Happy Kiting Kai Griebenow griebeno@mit.edu ********************************************************* * * * Want to see nice kites? * * Try: http://web.mit.edu/griebeno/www/kites.html * * * ********************************************************* = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =