Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 16:07:05 -1000 From: fsiegel@linet02.li.net (Frank Siegel) Message-Id: <3u1v49$1ij@linet02.li.net> Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Subject: Help with Stranger? Dear Kiters- Please don't see "Frank" and bury this- I'm a different Frank- (and not at all nasty) 8-) A friend of mine has recently purchased a "Stranger" kite, marketed by Flexifoil. It is his first radical kite. He loves it (and I covet it- but he does let me fly it). He was teaching his girlfriend to fly (she's new to kites)- and he had her fly the stranger. After several "accidental landings", one of the lower spreaders punched through the fitting on the leading edge. When he went to get it fixed, the retailer told him that the reason for the problem was that there is too much pressure on these fittings, and showed him that when the kite is assembled these fittings tend to rotate and, rather than the tube going straight in, the fitting bends in an "L" shape. This ultimately resulted in the end of the spreader punching through the side of the fitting. The dealer has ordered a new fitting, and is recommending that he "fix" this problem by cutting about 1/4" off each of the graphite lower spreaders, shortening them and reducing the pressure. I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. If anyone has any experience with this problem, or can make any recommendations for other solutions (if this really is a problem, or should these spreaders fit this way). Target date for the operation is Friday...thanks for any input on this. Frank Siegel = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 06:49:58 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <3u3irm$m0g@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Washington Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? In article <3u1v49$1ij@linet02.li.net>, fsiegel@newshost.li.net says... > When he went to get it fixed, the retailer told him that the reason >for the problem was that there is too much pressure on these fittings, >and showed him that when the kite is assembled these fittings tend to >rotate and, rather than the tube going straight in, the fitting bends in >an "L" shape. This ultimately resulted in the end of the spreader >punching through the side of the fitting. > The dealer has ordered a new fitting, and is recommending that he >"fix" this problem by cutting about 1/4" off each of the graphite lower >spreaders, shortening them and reducing the pressure. > I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. >If anyone has any experience with this problem, or can make any >recommendations for other solutions (if this really is a problem, or >should these spreaders fit this way). > Target date for the operation is Friday...thanks for any input on this. >Frank Siegel > Frank, Shortening the spreaders will definately change the performance of the kite. The looser sail will be less radical and many of the unique Stranger tricks will probably become less doable. The trick is to make sure that the spreaders are seated all the way into the fittings, or to go to more rigid fittings, such as the PowerTite connectors. I'm surprised that the stock fitting on the Stranger failed in this way; I'd just replace it and see what happened before taking a saw to my spreaders. It's only a buck or so; you might as well just buy some spares and replace as necessary. Cheers, George -- ============================== George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu University of Washington Department of Zoology Box 351800 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:10:11 -1000 From: bwg001@polaris.unm.edu (Brian W. Gordon) Message-Id: <3u3uj3$kaj@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? Frank Siegel (fsiegel@newshost.li.net) wrote: : Dear Kiters- Please don't see "Frank" and bury this- I'm a different : Frank- (and not at all nasty) 8-) : A friend of mine has recently purchased a "Stranger" kite, marketed by : Flexifoil. It is his first radical kite. He loves it (and I covet it- but : he does let me fly it). : He was teaching his girlfriend to fly (she's new to kites)- and he had : her fly the stranger. After several "accidental landings", one of the : lower spreaders punched through the fitting on the leading edge. : When he went to get it fixed, the retailer told him that the reason : for the problem was that there is too much pressure on these fittings, : and showed him that when the kite is assembled these fittings tend to : rotate and, rather than the tube going straight in, the fitting bends in : an "L" shape. This ultimately resulted in the end of the spreader : punching through the side of the fitting. : The dealer has ordered a new fitting, and is recommending that he : "fix" this problem by cutting about 1/4" off each of the graphite lower : spreaders, shortening them and reducing the pressure. : I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. : If anyone has any experience with this problem, or can make any : recommendations for other solutions (if this really is a problem, or : should these spreaders fit this way). : Target date for the operation is Friday...thanks for any input on this. : Frank Siegel : Here's my advice... Don't cut the lower spreader. This will change the aspect ratio of the kite (a tiny bit). It will also cause the stand-off to fit more loose. And still wont solve your problem. The leading edge fittings that come with the Stranger are made of a soft rubber that grips the spars well but is a bit on the soft side. I to have had this problem (only after months of flying). There are several ways you can fix this. - OK so the edge connector is getting pushed into an L shape. One side on mine started to wear through. I slid it of the spar, flipped it over and put it back on so it could wear through the other side. - File or sand the ends of the spars to that they are smooth and slightly rounded. My spars seemed to be cut and left with sharp edges that tend to cut through the fittings. - Replace the edge connectors with something a little tougher with an internal diameter of about .2200 or .2300 inches. On a related note... Like Andy Preston says: You actions should be smooth yet agressive. You don't want to snap the kite to pieces with your arms. And if you break something, it's not a terminal thing... just replace it. Well you will sooner or later need to replace you lower spreaders anyways. (or mabey just the T-bracket). Eventually you will snap the lower spreader(s) right at the T-bracket. I (and others) think it is a design flaw, Flexifoil says no. Either the connections on the T-bracket are not deep enough or the 6.0mm Excel rods are too fragile, or both. Here's how I fixed this. I replaced the lower spreaders with Avia .230, wich has a 6.0 mm external diameter and is 32.5 inches long (like the original rod). You can then glue a thick piece of fiber glass rod (about 5 inches long) in the ends. Thus beefing up the ends that go into the T-bracket. Or you can beef up your existing Excel rods before they break sliding a piece of AFC .1580 in the end and gluing it in place. After replacing my lower spreaders with beefed up Avia .230 rods, I have had no troubles. In fact some super-agressive Berkeley types were unable to break the lower spreaders. Though they had no trouble breaking most of the other spars in the kite. I was honored. Hope this helps Keith Kidder = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:37:29 -1000 From: NSVS12A@prodigy.com (Ken Forslund) Message-Id: <3u4l99$2ph6@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? Agree with others, do not cut the spars. I have replaced my fittings with PRISM Eclipse fittings drilled out with a 15/64 " drill. Much harder rubber. Also had the problem of the fly lines cutting into the soft rubber and failing to clear during a stunt. Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 05:09:51 -1000 From: jcampbell3@msmail3.hac.com (Campbell, James E) Message-Id: Organization: HAC Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? > I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. I'd be concerned too. Don't do it. I encountered a similar problem when I was developing my Legacy Standard kite. This kite uses G-Force Standard rods into Conflex connectors. In high wind conditions, the G-Force rods tended to cut into the Conflex connector. My solution was to insert a plug into the ends of the spreaders. If you look around, you may be able to find some of the plastic Easton end plugs which were used with their aluminum/carbon kite rods. The end plugs kind of resemble plastic thumb tacks. They can be easily modified and fit into the end of the rod covering the edges of the rod with a shoulder of plastic. For my Legacy, I round the shoulders just a little bit. Haven't had the problem since. I believe I saw some of these end plugs in BFK's miscellaneous parts box not too long ago. Try giving them a call at (714) 529-6589. -- James E. Campbell (jcampbell3@msmail3.hac.com) Hughes Aircraft Company Leading Edge Kites = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:08:22 -1000 From: ac078@detroit.freenet.org (Ken Nealey) Message-Id: <3u5mnm$beq@detroit.freenet.org> Organization: Greater Detroit Free-Net, Detroit, MI Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? In a previous article, fsiegel@newshost.li.net (Frank Siegel) says: ...Snip... Stuff deleted > He was teaching his girlfriend to fly (she's new to kites)- and he had >her fly the stranger. After several "accidental landings", one of the >lower spreaders punched through the fitting on the leading edge. > When he went to get it fixed, the retailer told him that the reason >for the problem was that there is too much pressure on these fittings, >and showed him that when the kite is assembled these fittings tend to >rotate and, rather than the tube going straight in, the fitting bends in >an "L" shape. This ultimately resulted in the end of the spreader >punching through the side of the fitting. > The dealer has ordered a new fitting, and is recommending that he >"fix" this problem by cutting about 1/4" off each of the graphite lower >spreaders, shortening them and reducing the pressure. > I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. > Frank, It is not uncommon for the lower spreader fitting to twist as you describe above on kites that have a lot of pressure on the lower spreader. In general, if you shorten the lower spreader 1/4" (each), you will reduce the wingspan about 1". This will also alter the aspect ratio, affect the balance, slightly change the bridle geometry, etc. It would be better if you can adjust the tension by cutting or reconfiguring the sail stand-off (whisker). The fitting that is used on the Stranger is pretty flimsy and rotates easily on the leading edge spar. If you can find some, replace all of the connector fittings with the Skyshark plug-in vinyl fitting (Skyshark is no longer making this fitting - check around there are still a few of these available to fit linear graphite rods). This fitting is much stronger, in part, this is due to the larger wall thickness. Just a couple of other suggestions, be sure that the leach line is not too tight and that there is some slack in the bounce line (wingtip to spine to wingtip). Ken Nealey = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 05:09:51 -1000 From: jcampbell3@msmail3.hac.com (Campbell, James E) Message-Id: Organization: HAC Subject: Re: Help with Stranger? > I am concerned that this surgery may really adversely affect the kite. I'd be concerned too. Don't do it. I encountered a similar problem when I was developing my Legacy Standard kite. This kite uses G-Force Standard rods into Conflex connectors. In high wind conditions, the G-Force rods tended to cut into the Conflex connector. My solution was to insert a plug into the ends of the spreaders. If you look around, you may be able to find some of the plastic Easton end plugs which were used with their aluminum/carbon kite rods. The end plugs kind of resemble plastic thumb tacks. They can be easily modified and fit into the end of the rod covering the edges of the rod with a shoulder of plastic. For my Legacy, I round the shoulders just a little bit. Haven't had the problem since. I believe I saw some of these end plugs in BFK's miscellaneous parts box not too long ago. Try giving them a call at (714) 529-6589. -- James E. Campbell (jcampbell3@msmail3.hac.com) Hughes Aircraft Company Leading Edge Kites = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =