Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:50:41 -1000 From: marty@amc.com (Marty Akerman) Message-Id: <1994Sep27.225041.10633@amc.com> Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA Subject: Kites and Static Electricity Hi Kiters! I have a question about something shocking (pun intended) that happened to me over the weekend. I'm an avid single-line kite builder and flyer, and I also enjoy canoeing. I frequently take a small (7.5 sq ft) parafoil in the canoe with me just in case the wind happens to be heading the direction I want to go. Even a small parafoil will pull a stream-lined canoe along at a pretty good clip, allowing me to kick back and enjoy life immensely. Well, this time I noticed that if I touched the water while "sailing" along like this, I'd get a shock, like static electricity when you rub your feet on the carpet. I've never noticed this before, either while kite/canoeing, or while paddle/canoeing. My question is, where is the static charge coming from? The hull of the canoe is basically polyethylene, if that matters, and this was in salt water. It was really pretty amazing, and would only take five or ten seconds to build up an audible snap. Is it: A) always being generated even while just paddling, but discharged every time a paddle is dipped into the water? B) generated by the wind passing over the kite? C) generated by the canoe's hull slipping through the water? D) dependent on current weather conditions, humidity, temperature, etc? E) the answer to the energy crisis? F) extremely dangerous, and I should never do it again? As my wheels slowly turned, I thought of a way to harness this energy source. Night flights and lighting are a frequent topic in this group. I was thinking of using the static to fire some small neon bulbs. I could ring the boat with neon lamps, each with one lead connected to a metal plate attached to the inside of the hull, and the other extending down to about an inch or two off the water. As the boat gently rocked, or small waves lapped the boat, the outboard lead would contact the water, providing a discharge path through the neon (neon ionizes at about 90 volts as I recall, so the voltage and stored stored charge would be plenty for a brief flash). Would that work? I'll have to give it a shock, uh, shot. Your opinions, speculation, and/or knowledgable dissertations welcomed. Marty Akerman marty@amc.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:01:01 -1000 From: coreykite@aol.com (Coreykite) Message-Id: <36b0qt$blg@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Kites and Static Electricity In article <1994Sep27.225041.10633@amc.com>, marty@amc.com (Marty Akerman) writes: >Static discharge while paddling. What is it? I respond... I'm no elec. eng. but I know there is no need of a storm for neg & pos ions to be generated. Lifting telemetry antenna for earthquake research taught a scientist friend of mine this lesson. Clear sky with parafoil up about 400 ft. Antenna wire ended about 2 feet from the ground. He walked out to connect the lead from his transmitter, and got kicked on his b**t. I think it is the action of air molecules that is doing it. I'm sure we will hear from the experts soon. oxo = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:20:56 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Kites and Static Electricity In article <1994Sep27.225041.10633@amc.com>, marty@amc.com (Marty Akerman) writes: >I have a question about something shocking (pun intended) that happened to >me over the weekend. > >I'm an avid single-line kite builder and flyer, and I also enjoy canoeing. >I frequently take a small (7.5 sq ft) parafoil in the canoe with me just >in case the wind happens to be heading the direction I want to go. Even a >small parafoil will pull a stream-lined canoe along at a pretty good clip, >allowing me to kick back and enjoy life immensely. > >Well, this time I noticed that if I touched the water while "sailing" along >like this, I'd get a shock, like static electricity when you rub your feet >on the carpet. I've never noticed this before, either while kite/canoeing, >or while paddle/canoeing. My question is, where is the static charge coming >from? The hull of the canoe is basically polyethylene, if that matters, and >this was in salt water. It was really pretty amazing, and would only take >five or ten seconds to build up an audible snap. There is always a potential difference between points above ground and the ground (in this case the water). The power involved is very small, otherwise there might be an industry to generate power by building tall towers or flying kites. An Amateur Scientist article in Scientific America in the late sixties described building a motor that would run off of the electrical potential between a point several hundred feet above the ground and the ground. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 20:31:17 -1000 From: pbc@ufl.edu (Philip Chase) Message-Id: Organization: CIRCA, University of Florida Subject: Re: Kites and Static Electricity In article sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >From: sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) >Subject: Re: Kites and Static Electricity >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 16:20:56 GMT >In article <1994Sep27.225041.10633@amc.com>, marty@amc.com (Marty Akerman) writes: >>Well, this time I noticed that if I touched the water while "sailing" along >>like this, I'd get a shock, like static electricity when you rub your feet >>on the carpet. I've never noticed this before, either while kite/canoeing, >>or while paddle/canoeing. My question is, where is the static charge coming >>from? The hull of the canoe is basically polyethylene, if that matters, and >>this was in salt water. It was really pretty amazing, and would only take >>five or ten seconds to build up an audible snap. >There is always a potential difference between points above ground and >the ground (in this case the water). The power involved is very small, >otherwise there might be an industry to generate power by building >tall towers or flying kites. Have people experienced this outside of storm conditions? I have had it happen once flying with Spectra and some non-conductive line leaders (sorry I don't know the material). The Spectra would acquire charge and on the hard turns, when my hands touched it, I would get zapped. I quit for fear of the big ZAP. At the time there were a lot of non-threatening clouds that hours later produce rain. Philip Philip Chase Ask me about the Power Kiting Web Page. pbc@ufl.edu ------------------------------------ 904-378-6893 Have any good power kiting info? I would FAX: 904-392-3760 like to put it on the power kiting page. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =