Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:43:37 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <3lc689$jqt@geog25.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article , Rolf V. Oestergaard wrote: >Please let me have some comments on these metal eyelets that are >used as reinforcement for the various holes when constructing >sails for kites. Are you sure you need to use eyelets at all? I stopped using them a couple of years ago and don't miss 'em at all. I use snaps for my stand-offs (as have the Jordan Air kites for many years and the Ultra). For sail tensioning, I either use a line sewn along the leading edge (again similar to the Pro/Ultra), the leech line (the original Tracer, with it's "active sail tensioning" did not use any leading edge tension and relied on the non-floating leech line for this...it worked fairly well, though the design was later shifted so that the outer half of the leech line was left floating and a bungee was added to the leading edge), or some combination. Usually the LE tensioning line is sewn down (inside or outside the LE sleeve), but I've also been known to just reinforce a spot on the LE with a couple of layers of dacron and burn a small hole through. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@glue.umd.edu | to me. | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:47:43 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3lckhv$jfr@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard OIT Network Services Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article , rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) writes: |>Please let me have some comments on these metal eyelets that are |>used as reinforcement for the various holes when constructing |>sails for kites. |> |>1) Small (3-4 mm). Made from one part. Front looks nice, back is |>ragged. I use eyelets in my kites. I think they help to make this part a bit sturdier without having to have several layers of fabric reinforcement. In order to keep these things in place, I use a drop of cyanoacrilate (sp?) glue. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 05:33:33 -1000 From: rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) Message-Id: Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Subject: Metal eyelets Hi, Please let me have some comments on these metal eyelets that are used as reinforcement for the various holes when constructing sails for kites. I find two different types available around here: 1) Small (3-4 mm). Made from one part. Front looks nice, back is ragged. 2) Large (8 mm and larger). Made from two different parts. I have used the small ones with very limited success. They does not seem to work very well. It seems that the one-part types are not suited for something with that much stress. The large ones seem to be a much better construction, but they also seem too large for (stunt) kites. -- See You on FAN0, ______________ Rolf V. Oestergaard, Copenhagen, Denmark \ /\ / email: rolf@login.dknet.dk \/ \/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:48:52 -1000 From: skyvis@shell.portal.com (Richard P Cornwell) Message-Id: <3lf1v4$ev0@news1.shell> Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data) Subject: Re: Metal eyelets Jeffrey C. Burka (jburka@Glue.umd.edu) wrote: : In article , : Rolf V. Oestergaard wrote: : >Please let me have some comments on these metal eyelets that are : >used as reinforcement for the various holes when constructing : >sails for kites. : Are you sure you need to use eyelets at all? I stopped using them a couple : of years ago and don't miss 'em at all. I use them, they are easy to put in, and make the kite look nice. They also help to stop the gradual deformation of the Dacron from the bungi. : I use snaps for my stand-offs (as have the Jordan Air kites for many years : and the Ultra). For sail tensioning, I either use a line sewn along the : leading edge (again similar to the Pro/Ultra), the leech line (the original : Tracer, with it's "active sail tensioning" did not use any leading edge : tension and relied on the non-floating leech line for this...it worked : [Deleted] For stand offs, I use Stand off Pads. These are quick to sew on, easy to replace a broken standoff etc (yes I have broken them). If you sew them to the front of the sail, the bridles will not catch on the standoffs. I don't like to sew the bungi down to the sail since I have worn through the wing tip bungi on several of my kites with groundwork. When it is sewn in you have to rip the sail apart to replace it. Also as the sail ages you sometimes have to adjust the tension to keep the leading edge tight. Rich ========================================================================== Richard & Kim Cornwell skyvis@shell.portal.com Sky Vision Kites (408) 733-9313 415-112 No. Mary Av. Suite 111 http://www.portal.com/~skyvis Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Check out our new stuff and Spring Sale. ========================================================================== = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:56:56 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <3lfnh8$eae@geog20.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article <3lf1v4$ev0@news1.shell>, Richard P Cornwell wrote: > > For stand offs, I use Stand off Pads. These are quick to sew on, easy >to replace a broken standoff etc (yes I have broken them). If you sew them >to the front of the sail, the bridles will not catch on the standoffs. For some reason, I've never been fond of those paddles. I couldn't really explain why. It's not functional, and probably not aesthetic. Call me completely irrational -- people have been doing so for years. ;-) >I don't >like to sew the bungi down to the sail since I have worn through the wing tip >bungi on several of my kites with groundwork. When it is sewn in you have to >rip the sail apart to replace it. Um, I don't think I ever recommended sewing bungee to a sail. I said I sew a *tensioning line* to the sail. This is virtually always a piece of kevlar, though I've been known to use dacron and even polyester line. There's never been a reason to replace it, and re-tensioning the sail is easy. There are a couple of other interesting methods I've seen. Is is on Cathy Goodwind's Flash (and probably other models as well). A stretchy-gaskety sort of rubber ring is hitched onto a fabric tab which is sewn to the wing tip. This is then tensioned over a nock. The other is on the old LiteFlites...the leading edge sleeve is continued with a doubled-over wide piece of elastic. The spar has a vinyl cap and sits inside the elastic -- a very clean fitting. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@glue.umd.edu | to me. | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 00:49:20 -1000 From: Peter.Dawson@ind3x.dircon.co.uk (Peter Dawson) Message-Id: <598_9504081817@ind3x.dircon.co.uk> Organization: ind3x Subject: Re: Metal eyelets Hi Rolf RVO> From: rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) RVO> Subject: Metal eyelets RVO> Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten RVO> Please let me have some comments on these metal eyelets that are RVO> used as reinforcement for the various holes when constructing RVO> sails for kites. I find two different types available around RVO> here: RVO> 1) Small (3-4 mm). Made from one part. Front looks nice, back is RVO> ragged. I use the small version, as used in dressmaking, but I was conserned about the ragged back - so I got hold of some brass washers to go between the material and the back of the eyelet, this also improved the grip of the eyelet as it was designed for much thicker material than ripstop. hope this helps. regards, Peter Dawson peter.dawson@ind3x.dircon.co.uk ... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"... +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | ind3x.dircon.co.uk in Nottingham, England /_ _|_ | | // || |_|\/ | | "...Slave to the hormone, body and soul..." // ||_|_|/\ | +-----------------------------------------------------------+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 09:54:17 -1000 From: rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) Message-Id: Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten Subject: Re: Metal eyelets jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) wrote: >I said I sew a *tensioning line* to the sail. This is virtually >always a piece of kevlar, though I've been known to use dacron and >even polyester line. Does that mean, You have the needle go through the kevlar line on something like 20 stiches (forth and back) in succession? That somehow reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes strip, where Calivin complians about the instructions for a small plastic model aircraft with something like: "How the h... am I supposed to draw eyebrows on the pilot, when he is only one inch high?" Hmmm. Hope practice does it. Thanks to all for Your nice comments on the issue (anyway). -- See You on FAN0, ______________ Rolf V. Oestergaard, Copenhagen, Denmark \ /\ / email: rolf@login.dknet.dk \/ \/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 08:45:08 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <3meink$3k5a@nntp2.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Washington Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article , rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) says: > >jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) wrote: > >>I said I sew a *tensioning line* to the sail. This is virtually >>always a piece of kevlar, though I've been known to use dacron and >>even polyester line. > >Does that mean, You have the needle go through the kevlar line on >something like 20 stiches (forth and back) in succession? > Rolf, Dean Jordan lays a tight zigzag stitch *over* about 30 cm of kevlar cord. I assume that the friction holds it in place. It certainly works very well; far lighter than bungee and easily tensioned and detensioned each time you fly. He does not actually sew through the cord. Cheers, George ============================== George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu University of Washington Department of Zoology Box 351800 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:54:03 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <3memor$dl9@geog20.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article <3meink$3k5a@nntp2.u.washington.edu>, George W. Gilchrist wrote: >In article , rolf@login.dknet.dk (Rolf V. Oestergaard) says: >>Does that mean, You have the needle go through the kevlar line on >>something like 20 stiches (forth and back) in succession? >Rolf, > >Dean Jordan lays a tight zigzag stitch *over* about 30 cm of kevlar >cord. I assume that the friction holds it in place. It certainly works >very well; far lighter than bungee and easily tensioned and detensioned >each time you fly. He does not actually sew through the cord. Heh...George beat me to responding to Rolf's post. Which model of Jordan Air were you referring to, George? On my Microlite, the kevlar tensioning line *is* sewn directly to the sail, over a length of about 62cm. A wide, curved multi-stitch zigzag is used, and the needle passes through the kevlar something like every 4th or 5th stitch. On my Pro, the tensioning line is sewn inside the leading edge, using the triangular multi-stitch zigzag (in fact, the tensioning line was probably bonded to the back half of the leading edge strip with the fusible web that's used to hold the le strip to the sail, so that the same seam that holds the le to the sail also holds down the tensioning line). There is an additional seam maybe 3cm long at the very wingtip, a narrower multi-stitch zigzag with the stitches closer together to further tack down the tensioning line. My Pro is a couple of years old; I'm not sure if Dean has discontinued this extra seam, or if it's used because of the extra stiffness of the Pro's frame (especially in the case of my Advantage frame) as compared to the G-Force Skinnies in the Microlite. I can't remember whether or not TC uses a second seam at the wingtip of the Ultra, but I believe he does. I do know that, like my Pro, the bulk of the tensioning line is tacked in with the same seam that forms the LE sleeve. On the Ultra, the tensioning line is quite a bit longer, though -- as I recall, it ends halfway between the lower and upper spreaders. I've used these methods on many of my own deltas and have been quite happy with them. I don't miss bungie and/or eyelets at all. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@glue.umd.edu | to me. | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 05:51:56 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <3mgsus$vsg@nntp2.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Washington Subject: Re: Metal eyelets In article <3memor$dl9@geog20.umd.edu>, jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) says: >Heh...George beat me to responding to Rolf's post. > >Which model of Jordan Air were you referring to, George? > I've got an Aeon (certainly one of the most fabulous kites on the market; watch this space for a review...) and I admit that I did not look *very* closely at the stitching before spouting off on this. On the other hand, I think that a long cord tightly zigzagged onto a taut sail would be mighty difficult to pull out even if the stitches did not pass through the cord. I have an Ultra, but I did not pull it out to look at it. I defer to your more careful and thorough consideration of these stitches... Cheers, George ============================== George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu University of Washington Department of Zoology Box 351800 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =