Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 02:19:20 -1000 From: gf164@cleveland.freenet.edu (Philip J. Le Riche) Message-Id: <41f6c9$2ob@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Subject: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? The basic problem is that with any drop in wind or momentary loss of tension in the lines it immediately does a nose-dive, so that (a) pulling the lines won't restore it, and (b) it presents its back to the wind. Once this happens it seems to be irrecoverable. With care and in a steady wind I can launch it and get it to a reasonable height. (It seems to fly with the lines much more vertical than my old diamond-shaped kite.) With care, I can then get it to drift >From side to side, but there's no way you could call it responsive. The best I could do was to get it to zoom from one side to the other, with much noisy flapping of loose rip-stop, but loops, dives, figures of eight (quite easy with my old kite) seem to be virtually impossible. Before everybody tells me to adjust the bridle, I've done that with the expected change in angle of flight, but no improvement in stability. I've had my best results in moderate and fairly steady wind, but surely the makers don't expect wind tunnel conditions. Should I (a) chuck it and get another, (b) add some sort of tail to conteract the heavy nose, (c) accept that kite flying is a serious business and put in a few more hours practice, (d) give up and leave it to serious guys like you? - Philip -- ============================================================================= Philip Le Riche gf164@cleveland.freenet.edu (Malgre son nom, ce brave homme ne parle pas Francais) ============================================================================= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 06:44:17 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <41flt1$dc7@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Washington Subject: Re: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble In article <41f6c9$2ob@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, gf164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu says... > > >I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot >of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta >would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it >turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it >just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? > I'm not familiar with this kite, so I cannot offer specific help, but there are some lousy kites out there... My first reaction would be to take it back to the dealer and explain the problems and see what they say. Most dealers are very good at sorting out difficulties like these, either by repair or replacement with a better kite. >The basic problem is that with any drop in wind or momentary loss of >tension in the lines it immediately does a nose-dive, so that (a) >pulling the lines won't restore it, and (b) it presents its back to the >wind. Once this happens it seems to be irrecoverable. > First, are you sure you have all the parts? I've helped several beginners whose kites were exhibiting similar behavior by pointing out that pieces of the kite, such as standoffs (or, in one case 1/3 of the leading edge!) were missing. Just this week I helped a chap improvise a set of battens that were missing from his borrowed kite, with a dramatic improvement in performance. Any dealer should be able to help you if this is the case. You say you have already experimented with bridle adjustments (I think the appropriate thing would be to move the tow point toward the nose to increase lift a bit; start at the marks and move it in 1/4" increments), so I assume the problem lies elsewhere. My guess is that this kite is on the small side. One of the problems with beginning the sport is that large kites (8 ft. or more wingspan) are fairly expensive, so there is a temptation to get something small to see how it goes. Unfortunately, the smaller the kite, the harder it is to fly (speaking in gross generalities here). Many kites below 6 ft. wingspan have a tendency to bail out of the sky when the wind drops. Most fail when they approach the edge of the wind window. If your kite is not at least 6 ft. from wingtip to wingtip, you should get something bigger to learn on and save the little kite for fun in gales. I think beginners should pony up for a full size (8 ft.) kite. Learning on a full size kite is *so* much easier than on a smaller sail; you are much more likely to find enjoyment in this great sport with a decent piece of equipment. Of course, since you will learn the skills needed to become a decent flier, you will appreciate that your full size kite was also a good investment. In the 8 ft. range, the best moderately priced kite I know of is the three stripe Griffin (graphite frame, nylon sail, about $100). Other choices include the Zilla (haven't tried it myself but I've heard good things) and the Foxtrot (very cheap, flies great, but poor construction suggests major durability problems). If you want to compromise with a 6 footer, the Prism Ion is great and tough as a boot. The Wizard and the Tracker are also quite good. Of course, if you don't mind spending $150 or more on a kite, there are a lot of excellent choices that will serve you for many years. >Should I (a) chuck it and get another, (b) add some sort of tail to >conteract the heavy nose, (c) accept that kite flying is a serious >business and put in a few more hours practice, (d) give up and leave it >to serious guys like you? Maybe (a), try (b), definately (c) and don't even consider (d). Let us know how it goes. Good luck! > Cheers, George - ============================== George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu University of Washington Department of Zoology Box 351800 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 01:24:00 -1000 From: KITEJAG@MOTHER.COM (John A. Gabby Jr.) Message-Id: <41hrkc$tgu@pa.mother.com> Organization: Mother.COM Subject: Re: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble gf164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip J. Le Riche) wrote: >I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot >of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta >would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it >turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it >just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? >The basic problem is that with any drop in wind or momentary loss of >tension in the lines it immediately does a nose-dive, so that (a) >pulling the lines won't restore it, and (b) it presents its back to the >wind. Once this happens it seems to be irrecoverable. >With care and in a steady wind I can launch it and get it to a >reasonable height. (It seems to fly with the lines much more vertical >than my old diamond-shaped kite.) With care, I can then get it to drift >from side to side, but there's no way you could call it responsive. The >best I could do was to get it to zoom from one side to the other, with >much noisy flapping of loose rip-stop, but loops, dives, figures of >eight (quite easy with my old kite) seem to be virtually impossible. >Before everybody tells me to adjust the bridle, I've done that with the >expected change in angle of flight, but no improvement in stability. >I've had my best results in moderate and fairly steady wind, but surely >the makers don't expect wind tunnel conditions. >Should I (a) chuck it and get another, (b) add some sort of tail to >conteract the heavy nose, (c) accept that kite flying is a serious >business and put in a few more hours practice, (d) give up and leave it >to serious guys like you? >- Philip >-- >============================================================================= >Philip Le Riche gf164@cleveland.freenet.edu >(Malgre son nom, ce brave homme ne parle pas Francais) >============================================================================= Philip, It sounds to me like you have a seriously mal-adjusted kite...not difficult at all to adjust. The problem is that I can't quite tell >From the way you describe things what adjustments should be made though I think the bridle point where the bridle attaches tothe flying lines should be lowered, ie, the nose laid back a bit...maybe even a whole lot. If this doesn't work then its obvious I guessed wrong and the opposite adjustment should be made...Got it? Seriously, Without knowing which kite you own, I also can't quite tell you how to make the adjutment...some kites use knots, others use rings. The absolute best advice is to take the kite to your dealer, tell him what it's doing and have him or her show you how to make the adjustments. Most deltas are actually easier to fly than the diamonds because they are a little more responsive...problems such as you describe are almost always bridle related even on the cheapest of cheap deltas. Maybe we have some flyers in the clevland area who could help a bit. John = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 04:12:35 -1000 From: cmc@eng.cam.ac.uk (C McClay) Message-Id: <41i1cj$79s@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Organization: Cambridge University Engineering Department Subject: Re: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble In article <41f6c9$2ob@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, gf164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu says... > > >I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot >of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta >would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it >turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it >just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? > I've had one of these kites and it exhibited the very same characteristics except when I flew it in gale force winds. Luckily it didn't put me off kiting and I stumped up money to buy my first `real' sports kite. Larger kites are definitely much easier to fly than the Rapido and although the initial price may seem high you do keep taking them out of the bag. In the end I gave my brother the Rapido as he lives near a very windy beach Cathy -- Cathy McClay Engineering Department University of Cambridge Email cmc@eng.cam.ac.uk Phone 0223 332798 Fax 0223 332662 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 10:19:25 -1000 From: tom@minster.cs.york.ac.uk (Tom Jackson) Message-Id: <809295565.153463@minster.york.ac.uk> Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England Subject: Re: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble : In article <41f6c9$2ob@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, gf164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu : says... : > : > : >I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot : >of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta : >would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it : >turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it : >just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? : > I flew one of these over the summer and had the same experience you are having. Two things helped - 1) lots of wind, it doesn't fly well in low winds, and 2) replace the supplied lines (like elastic!) with decent dyneema/spectra. The difference the latter option makes is quite impressive. Use very low breaking strain dyneema - 30lb or 50lb, and keep the lines shorter than 75'. Also you'll need to use much smaller hand movements than you were used to on the diamond, and always perform 'pull turns' to keep tension on the lines (this will stop it fluttering out of the sky). This will make a big difference, but the kite is little more than a toy (sorry to be blunt) and does not even compare with a good diamond stunter as you pointed out. Don't be put off! This is not typical of delta stunt kites. Mail me if you want some recommendations for a good beginners delta kite, or take a look at some of the kite catalogues listed in the FAQ. cheers, tom. _____________________________________________________________________ Tom Jackson, * One thing about intellectuals, Research Manager (HISE Group), * they proved that they can be Dept. of Computer Science, * absolutely brilliant and have University of York, Heslington, * no idea what's going on. YORK. YO1 5DD. UK. * Woody Allen 'Annie Hall' Tel/fax: [+44] (01904) 432760 e-mail: tom@minster.york.ac.uk http://dcpu1.cs.york.ac.uk:6666/tom/tom.html _____________________________________________________________________ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 19:10:16 -1000 From: Richard Bettis Message-Id: <12795800wnr@fats.demon.co.uk> Organization: Health & Safety Lab Subject: Newbie: delta sport kite trouble In article: <41f6c9$2ob@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> gf164@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip J. Le Riche) writes: > > I have a Worlds Apart "Rapido" delta sport kite which is giving me a lot > of trouble. When my diamond-shaped stunt kite died, I thought a delta > would be more exciting, if a little more challenging. In reality, it > turns out to be hard to fly and almost impossible to do loops etc. Is it > just me, my particular kite, or the nature of delta sports in general? My first 'delta' was a Rapido. When I got it the kite was put together incorrectly; one of the (little plastic two sided connector) thingies on the spine was in the wrong place. I had to adjust the bridle an awful long way to get the thing to fly at all, and this was when I knew next to nothing about bridle adjustments. Very frustrating. I ended up with the bridles adjusted so far from their original location that I began to suspect that it had been fitted upside down! Eventually I compared the kite with the picture on the packet, and found out that the connector was misplaced. I moved it, and re-adjusted the bridles; finally they ended up back at the original marks! After this the thing flew well enough to get me hooked :> The Rapido (as with any small kite, I think) is very fast. Certainly a bigger kite will give you far more control. Mine now sits in a corner of my office just in case I get a craving for lunchtime flying when I haven't got another kite with me. Maybe this is the problem with your Rapido too? (on a similar note, I bought my Stranger and one side of the bridle didn't have the (outhaul? / inhaul?) line from the flight line connector to the spine. Am I unlucky or are some kite manufacturers really poor at quality control!) -- +=============================================================================+ | Richard Bettis | "I make no warranty with respect to this | | | statement and disclaim any implied/explicit | | | suggestions of usefulness for any purpose" | +=============================================================================+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =