Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 14:53:15 -1000 From: dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters Colin Douthwaite (Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz) wrote: : The more I fly the Singapore Fighters the more impressed I become. Hi Colin, I too like the Singapore Fighters. The last time I was in Singapore I bought 200 to bring back home. I don't know what kind of line you use to fly yours on, but, I prefer the Glass line that these kites were made to fly with. Unfortunatly this also means that I can not fly with others as surely the glass will cut the other kites from the sky. I have tried 8 lb cotton, waxed linen, ect, ect. None work as well as the glass. I am in the process of building my own line. It will have good strength, wax, small diameter, no stretch. P.S. I'm also in the process of building .5 oz icarex singapore fighters. Later -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell dickbell@netcom.com Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 10:17:53 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <38egdi$el9@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: No-Wind Fighters The more I fly the Singapore Fighters the more impressed I become. Yesterday was a day when I had planned to do some experimental flying with two 2-line Stunters - not a hope - no wind. A 4 grams weight Indian Fighter would not fly but the 10 gram Singapore Fighter flew superbly and predictably - a really nice no- wind kite. -------------------------------------------------------------------- A Singapore Fighter /: \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /:::: \ AB = 19" /:::::::a \ CD = 19" /:::::::::: \ AC = AD = 12" /::::::::::::: \ BC = BD = 15" C <::::::::::::::: > D \:::::::::::::: / Bridle points: \::::::::::::: / Aa = 3.25" (cross-spar joint) \::::::::::: / Bb = 3" \::::::::: / \::::::: / Bridle length \:::::b / Lower leg = 15" \::: / Upper leg = 12.5" \:/ B -cfbd- Ratio Lower/Upper = 1.20 Glazed Paper/Bamboo Weight = 10 grams -------------------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 19:22:53 -1000 From: tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com (Bert Tanaka) Message-Id: <9410240522.AA13158@mts-gw.pa.dec.com> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: No-Wind Fighters Subj: No-Wind Fighters Colin Douthwaite writes: >A 4 grams weight Indian Fighter would not fly but the 10 gram >Singapore Fighter flew superbly and predictably - a really nice no- >wind kite. I've just recently begun flying fighters and am finding them challenging and lots of fun. Are there special techniques involved for no wind? I.E., do you walk backwards to keep them in flight? I usually fly with a pile of line on the ground - do you just walk around it, or do you do something different? Or, is it just that some fighers will fly in extremely low wind conditions? Seeking advice, Bert = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:22:03 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <38h1gr$jua@necco.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters In article <9410240522.AA13158@mts-gw.pa.dec.com>, tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com (Bert Tanaka) writes: >I've just recently begun flying fighters and am finding them challenging >and lots of fun. Are there special techniques involved for no wind? I.E., >do you walk backwards to keep them in flight? I usually fly with a pile >of line on the ground - do you just walk around it, or do you do something >different? Or, is it just that some fighers will fly in extremely low >wind conditions? First rule (remember that rules are meant to be broken) is to not move around too much while flying a fighter, especially if you are not using a reel. As the line piles up on the ground if you move around you will step on the line and then when you need to let line out, you won't be able to. As for flying in different winds, remember that a fighter gains stability and goes straight when the cross spar is bent into a bow. When the kite is flat it will spin. In order to get a fighter to go slack, the spar has to be stiff enough to get the sail flat. So, for higher winds you need a stiffer kite. As far as flying in very light (and no wind) you can quickly jerk a fighter kite to give it forward momentum. Then let out lots of line. The momentum will drive the kite forward pulling out a bit of line. It requires good timing, but you can let line out this way, and then just haul line in to get it to move around. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 22:03:45 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <38ie52$hb9@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters Dick Bell (dickbell@netcom.com) wrote: : Colin Douthwaite (Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz) wrote: : : The more I fly the Singapore Fighters the more impressed I become. : Hi Colin, I too like the Singapore Fighters. The last time I was in : Singapore I bought 200 to bring back home. I don't know what kind of : line you use to fly yours on, but, I prefer the Glass line that these : kites were made to fly with. Unfortunatly this also means that I can : not fly with others as surely the glass will cut the other kites from : the sky. I have tried 8 lb cotton, waxed linen, ect, ect. None work : as well as the glass. I am in the process of building my own line. : It will have good strength, wax, small diameter, no stretch. If you mean fine fibreglass thread, not the powdered glass cutting line, I cannot think you would do any more damage than with some other lines in use. Up to now I have been using very thin nylon or polyester lines I got supplied with a couple of Chinese kites bought for about $8 in Supermarkets, and a very fine line which came with the tiny Peter Lynn "Ei Dako" kite which also cost $8 complete with line :-) All my thin lines are getting tatty and untwisted and I have been advised to look for some industrial sewing thread as supplied to sailmakers, canvas and leather goods, and shoe and footwear manufacturers. Polyester sewing thread would be OK but it will be twisted or cabled not braided. Provided the twist is well balanced it should be alright. Polypropylene line - if you can get it - has very low stretch. For my heavier large Indian kites, 34 to 45 grams weight, I fly on braided 30 lb polyester ( Dacron ). > P.S. I'm also in the process of building .5 oz icarex singapore > fighters. Now they should be real nice. The famous Vics Fighter is very similar to the larger Singapore Fighter and has a Mylar sail. Bye, : -- : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell : dickbell@netcom.com : Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 22:07:18 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <38iebn$hc0@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters Bert Tanaka (tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com) wrote: : Subj: No-Wind Fighters : Colin Douthwaite writes: : >A 4 grams weight Indian Fighter would not fly but the 10 gram : >Singapore Fighter flew superbly and predictably - a really nice no- : >wind kite. : I've just recently begun flying fighters and am finding them challenging : and lots of fun. Are there special techniques involved for no wind? I.E., : do you walk backwards to keep them in flight? I usually fly with a pile : of line on the ground - do you just walk around it, or do you do something : different? Or, is it just that some fighers will fly in extremely low : wind conditions? Yes, I walk backwards to keep tension on the line, and keep giving little tugs to try for altitude and search for that elusive whisper of wind - all the time I am letting line out in that search for altitude. I have read much about leaving line loose on the ground, but from day one ( about a year ago ) I have flown from small plain 4" diameter plastic halo spools. I hold the spool in my right hand and do most of the finger and arm work with my left hand. When bringing the kite down or taking up flying-slack I rapidly wind up the line back on to the spool. For really sensitive control though, I suspect that the loose pile of line on the ground may give much better results. I certainly find that some kites will fly well in extremely low wind conditions - the Singapore Fighters for example, but they don't like much above 7 or 8 knots because they then blow to one side and will not track back across the wind envelope. Bear in mind that all my flying has been done by trial and error. A year ago I could not fly any fighter without it had a tail on :-) Beware, once you get hooked on fighters you won't want to stop. Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:24:49 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <38jpih$4k0@necco.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters In article <38ie52$hb9@southern.co.nz>, Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: >Up to now I have been using very thin nylon or polyester lines I got >supplied with a couple of Chinese kites bought for about $8 in >Supermarkets, and a very fine line which came with the tiny Peter >Lynn "Ei Dako" kite which also cost $8 complete with line :-) I use either cotton button and carpet thread, or waxed linen string that is sold around here as "figher kite line". I find that the cotton and linen have less stretch than the nylon or dacron which makes things a lot more responsive. I might try some Kevlar or Spectra line to see if even less stretch is noticeable. >All my thin lines are getting tatty and untwisted and I have been >advised to look for some industrial sewing thread as supplied to >sailmakers, canvas and leather goods, and shoe and footwear >manufacturers. Polyester sewing thread would be OK but it will be >twisted or cabled not braided. Provided the twist is well balanced >it should be alright. Polypropylene line - if you can get it - has >very low stretch. An interesting fact is that (some?) thread from the UK is twisted in the opposite direction as thread in the USA. Normally, this doesn't make that much of a difference. However, if you tie cutting line manufactured in India to US made thread, the thread will start to untwist. This often ends up with a mess of kinked thread that is wrapped in loops about the cutting line... Mathew Kim, a New Hampshire kite maker uses nylon thread wound on his large Korean style reel. He can more line off and on the reel so fast though, I doubt that the stretch makes any difference at all to him. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 01:17:48 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: Organization: Kites By Carl Crowell Subject: Re: No-Wind Fighters I use waxed linnen.. or Kevlar thread (10 lb text twisted pair monomer) on a Korean reel. The best thing is try try everything, and to stick with what you enjoy. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =