Subject: Re:parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe) Date: 28 Nov 92 17:00:24 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories It doesn't get any better.... I added four side stabiliser panels - the kite twirled less but it made it harder to get the front of the kite to sit-up into the wind. Managed to lift a full can containing 2.5 litres of water to a height of 10 feet but I'm beginning to get cheesed-off with this kite ... Now considering sticking some pockets round the front 3 gores and inserting some fibreglass to giv ethe front of the kite an even chance of getting the wind and it will also prevent the horrible collapse of the front end if the wind lulls during gusty bits... It's cold out on them thar' hills.... I'm a bit disappointed not to get any response off this noticeboard- perhaps I should re-bridle it as a stunter - I might get a better response..... Meanwhile I'll continue to struggle on (sniff,sniff) on my tod trying to get it to fly... Regards, Clive (dejected) DT ( P.S. This is NOT going to beat me!!!) "They always fly in the end..." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <17197@umd5.umd.edu> From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Date: 29 Nov 92 14:17:50 GMT Organization: University of Maryland at College Park In article <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk writes: >I'm a bit disappointed not to get any response off this noticeboard This isn't *that* surprising. The closest I've ever seen to a parakite was the plastic-canopied parachute-with-plastic-figurine-and-bridlepoint that my folks brought me from Mexico when I was 4. I've never even seen anyone flying anything like this, and wouldn't be surprised if most of the folks around here hadn't either. >perhaps I should re-bridle it as a stunter - I might get a better response... This isn't necessarily such a bad idea. From Joel Scholz's article/plans for the Gale Master stunting parachute in KiteLine (reprinted without permission, of course): The idea for this kite came to me while vacationing in Mexcio in 1985. I took a flight on a man-carrying parachute (parasail) pulled around the bay by a boat. It was great fun. When I returned home, I built a two-foot diameter canopy, using a photo of the 'chute as my plan. Originally, I had intended the kite to fly from one line, but the prototype simply spun iun circles. Whether this was a function of the design or the bridles, I am not sure. So I did what I always do when I happen to design an unbstable kite: I attached another flying line so I could control the thing. ----------- Scholz's kite has the shroud lines coming down to a control bar, to which the flying lines are attached... > ( P.S. This is NOT going to beat me!!!) That's the spirit! ;-) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <11152@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) Date: 30 Nov 92 11:33:55 GMT Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland. It sounds like you have uncontrolled yaw. You might minimise this with a very long tail. This tend to damp out yaw. As for collapse ... I'm all for putting "whiskers" into parafoils to maintain inflation. I have made this modification to all the parafoils that I have built. It makes launch easier, and tends to minimise collapse. I use a whisker on the outer cells, running fore to aft, length approx 100f parafoil length. I use 3mm carbon on 100 sq foils. Also consider hanging your ballast much further below the canopy. Again, this may damp out yaw more effectively. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <1992Nov30.093032.3341@aber.ac.uk> From: puc@aber.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) Date: 30 Nov 92 09:30:32 GMT Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth In article <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk writes: > >It doesn't get any better.... > >I added four side stabiliser panels - the kite twirled less >but it made it harder to get the front of the kite to sit-up into the wind. > >Managed to lift a full can containing 2.5 litres of water to a height of 10 feet >but I'm beginning to get cheesed-off with this kite ... >Now considering sticking some pockets round the front 3 gores and inserting >some fibreglass to giv ethe front of the kite an even chance of getting the wind >and it will also prevent the horrible collapse of the front end if the wind lulls >during gusty bits... > Is this kite anything like Ed Grauel's "parachute kite"? I remember seeing a design for this in one of Ron Moulton's early books (mid 70s). This was based on a 1.1m diameter circle but the shape is actually 12-sided (duodecahedral?). I seem to recall this tended to spin so air was vented by a 10cm dia. circle placed centrally with two trapezoidal vents placed symmetrically below the centre. Two small weights were arranged at the base. Hope this makes sense. If I'm on the right track, I'd be happy to find the article & send more detailed description. Paul (puc@uk.ac.aberystwyth) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re:parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe) Date: 28 Nov 92 17:00:24 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories It doesn't get any better.... I added four side stabiliser panels - the kite twirled less but it made it harder to get the front of the kite to sit-up into the wind. Managed to lift a full can containing 2.5 litres of water to a height of 10 feet but I'm beginning to get cheesed-off with this kite ... Now considering sticking some pockets round the front 3 gores and inserting some fibreglass to giv ethe front of the kite an even chance of getting the wind and it will also prevent the horrible collapse of the front end if the wind lulls during gusty bits... It's cold out on them thar' hills.... I'm a bit disappointed not to get any response off this noticeboard- perhaps I should re-bridle it as a stunter - I might get a better response..... Meanwhile I'll continue to struggle on (sniff,sniff) on my tod trying to get it to fly... Regards, Clive (dejected) DT ( P.S. This is NOT going to beat me!!!) "They always fly in the end..." = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <17197@umd5.umd.edu> From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Date: 29 Nov 92 14:17:50 GMT Organization: University of Maryland at College Park In article <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk writes: >I'm a bit disappointed not to get any response off this noticeboard This isn't *that* surprising. The closest I've ever seen to a parakite was the plastic-canopied parachute-with-plastic-figurine-and-bridlepoint that my folks brought me from Mexico when I was 4. I've never even seen anyone flying anything like this, and wouldn't be surprised if most of the folks around here hadn't either. >perhaps I should re-bridle it as a stunter - I might get a better response... This isn't necessarily such a bad idea. From Joel Scholz's article/plans for the Gale Master stunting parachute in KiteLine (reprinted without permission, of course): The idea for this kite came to me while vacationing in Mexcio in 1985. I took a flight on a man-carrying parachute (parasail) pulled around the bay by a boat. It was great fun. When I returned home, I built a two-foot diameter canopy, using a photo of the 'chute as my plan. Originally, I had intended the kite to fly from one line, but the prototype simply spun iun circles. Whether this was a function of the design or the bridles, I am not sure. So I did what I always do when I happen to design an unbstable kite: I attached another flying line so I could control the thing. ----------- Scholz's kite has the shroud lines coming down to a control bar, to which the flying lines are attached... > ( P.S. This is NOT going to beat me!!!) That's the spirit! ;-) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <11152@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) Date: 30 Nov 92 11:33:55 GMT Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland. It sounds like you have uncontrolled yaw. You might minimise this with a very long tail. This tend to damp out yaw. As for collapse ... I'm all for putting "whiskers" into parafoils to maintain inflation. I have made this modification to all the parafoils that I have built. It makes launch easier, and tends to minimise collapse. I use a whisker on the outer cells, running fore to aft, length approx 100f parafoil length. I use 3mm carbon on 100 sq foils. Also consider hanging your ballast much further below the canopy. Again, this may damp out yaw more effectively. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: parakite bridling problems.... Message-ID: <1992Nov30.093032.3341@aber.ac.uk> From: puc@aber.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) Date: 30 Nov 92 09:30:32 GMT Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth In article <1992Nov28.170024.18001@zoo.bt.co.uk> cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk writes: > >It doesn't get any better.... > >I added four side stabiliser panels - the kite twirled less >but it made it harder to get the front of the kite to sit-up into the wind. > >Managed to lift a full can containing 2.5 litres of water to a height of 10 feet >but I'm beginning to get cheesed-off with this kite ... >Now considering sticking some pockets round the front 3 gores and inserting >some fibreglass to giv ethe front of the kite an even chance of getting the wind >and it will also prevent the horrible collapse of the front end if the wind lulls >during gusty bits... > Is this kite anything like Ed Grauel's "parachute kite"? I remember seeing a design for this in one of Ron Moulton's early books (mid 70s). This was based on a 1.1m diameter circle but the shape is actually 12-sided (duodecahedral?). I seem to recall this tended to spin so air was vented by a 10cm dia. circle placed centrally with two trapezoidal vents placed symmetrically below the centre. Two small weights were arranged at the base. Hope this makes sense. If I'm on the right track, I'd be happy to find the article & send more detailed description. Paul (puc@uk.ac.aberystwyth) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =