Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 06:51:00 -1000 From: rbott@intele.net (Robert Bott) Message-Id: <45u9jc$41u@vodka.intele.net> Organization: SavageInd.com Subject: Recomendations for full size ultralight Hello, Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, I'm looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform well. (axle etc.) Two local sugestions are the Griffin 3-Stripe and the K-2. I haven't seen either of these kites fly and would apreciate any feedback on these or others that may fit the purpose. Thanks, rbott@SavageInd.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:39:21 -1000 From: clifford lemons Message-Id: <45utvp$p5h@ionews.ionet.net> Organization: IONet Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Robert a good friend of mine named Jeff Howard has designed and builds one of the easist axling kites I have ever seen. Although it has only a seven and a half foot wingspan it handles like an eight footer. The Precisionist is custom made and comes with SkyShark or AFC frames. Jeff makes a super ultralight suitable for indoor use, an ultralight model and also a vented model for high winds. The Precision Kite Co. in Haileyville, OK (918-297-71220) is just starting out but everyone I know including myself hardly fly anything else(When were not buggying). Good luck in your quest, Cliff = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:23:29 -1000 From: clifford lemons Message-Id: <45ut21$p5h@ionews.ionet.net> Organization: IONet Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Robert, a good friend of mine makes one of the easiset axling kites I have ever flown. It has a seven and a half foot wingspan an comes with either a Skyshark or AFC frame. Jeff's kites are all custom built and he makes a super ultralight suitable for indoor flying to a vented model for high winds. The Precision Kite Co. Phone (918)297-7122 is in Haileyville,OK and everyone I know who owns one hardly Flies anything else. Good luck with your Quest, Cliff = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:59:15 -1000 From: bwg001@carina.unm.edu (Brian W. Gordon) Message-Id: <45v2lj$7or@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Robert Bott (rbott@intele.net) wrote: : Hello, : Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, I'm : looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform : well. (axle etc.) : Two local sugestions are the Griffin 3-Stripe and the K-2. : I haven't seen either of these kites fly and would apreciate any feedback on : these or others that may fit the purpose. : Thanks, : rbott@SavageInd.com If you've got the bucks, go for a Millennium. Since it is an indoor kite, it will fly quite nicely in the slightest breeze. However, being such a light kite, it has very little inertia to carry it through axels and such. An axel type trick isn't hard with the Millennium, it just takes a little more finnesse. Oh look, I just happen to have the Jordan Air number handy: 904-373-7018. Ask for their new catalog. Many of the Jordan Air kites are built for light winds, and all are quite capable of the tricks you mentioned. Keith Kidder No I'm not associated with Jordan Air Kites. This was an unsolicited testimonial. I just like Dean's (and Tim's) kites. Who doesn't? (heh, I said "hard") = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 04:04:48 -1000 From: sc5@prism.gatech.edu (SPC) Message-Id: <460d60$mqf@acmex.gatech.edu> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight In article <45u9jc$41u@vodka.intele.net>, Robert Bott wrote: > Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, Hey! Common problem! >looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform I'll make an unabashed recommendation. Get a ZDX Ultralight by R Kites. Excellent flier. One can even fly it indoors. The others that come to mind would be a Jordan Air X-1 or a MEFM UL by Big Easy Kites (just to be fair and provide equal time). But I personally would go with the ZDX. DISCLAIMER: I'm good friends with Reed RIchards, Jr., the R of R kites. Steve *************************************************** * I'm not a participant in any organized hobby... * * I'm a kiteflier! * ******************** aoxomoxoa ******************** http://server1.admin.gatech.edu/fac/steve/kiting/kiting.htm = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 06:26:25 -1000 From: gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu (George W. Gilchrist) Message-Id: <460lfh$df5@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Washington Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight In article <45u9jc$41u@vodka.intele.net>, rbott@intele.net says... > >Hello, > Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, I'm >looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform >well. (axle etc.) > >Two local sugestions are the Griffin 3-Stripe and the K-2. > >I haven't seen either of these kites fly and would apreciate any feedback on >these or others that may fit the purpose. > >Thanks, > rbott@SavageInd.com To my mind, neither of these kites is really a UL. The 3 stripe is quite heavy and definately not for winds below 4 MPH. I haven't flown a K2 myself, but I understand it's a quite radical wing. If you are on a tight budget, you might consider the Griffin 5 stripe. It's a fine kite for the money, but not a real high performance wing. The two kites I would recommend are the new Fizz Phantom Elite UL and the Aerie AirFX. My present favorite is the Phantom Elite UL, with a breadth of performance that is quite astonishing. It flies in 1-2 MPH winds up to 15 MPH or so. The specs are Icarex sail with Skyshark 3Ps for most of the frame. The kite is very well suited to precision flying, with almost no oversteer, tight cornering, and great tracking. But it is also one of the best radical kites around. Axels (doubles as well), flat spins, stalls, stabs, turtles, etc. are all right there for the asking. Sure, it's not as easy to do some of these tricks as on a Box of Tricks or a Prism Eclipse, but neither of those kites have anything like the precision capabilities of the Phantom Elite. The Air FX has a similar wind range, with better precision performance and less radical capabilities. It is made of Icarex with G-force UL rods. The kite is reasonably fast, with tracking abilities like a Reactor. It axels well and performs extremely predictabily without complaint. Either of these kites would be a great addition to anyone's bag. Both the Phantom Elite and the Air FX come in a super-ultralight form, with very skinny rods and minimal reinforcing. These are for winds under 8 MPH and, because of the light weight and the flexy sticks, they are more difficult to axel than the heavier kites. I would not consider these for a first ultralight. Someone mentioned the Jordan Millenium; I think this is too light a kite for general outdoor use. The Jordan Aeon (a Millenium with a stiffer frame) flies in 2+ MPH and is another fine choice. I prefer a kite that feels a bit more solid in the air; flying the Aeon is like flying the breeze itself. It's a great kite and I love to fly mine, but I simply prefer a bit more feedback. Let us know what you decide on! Cheers, George -- ============================== George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu University of Washington Department of Zoology Box 351800 Seattle, WA 98l95-1800 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:35:33 -1000 From: bfk@aol.com (Bfk) Message-Id: <461b3l$or2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Instead of the K2, you may want to consider the newer model Air F/X SL framed with G-Force Skinny. (Better kite in my opinion and the Skinny frame is just about as lite as you can get). MEFM used to make a featherweight framed with G-force skinny (I am not sure about current availability) Skyburner makes a great super ul indoor kite. Simple graphics (actually no graphics) keeps the cost reasonable and it is definitely a performer. If you are willing to accept less than a full size kite, the Buena Vista X4i is a top pick for no wind / indoor flying. Priced around $75.00, it comes complete with lines winder and strap. Great pkg for low bucks. Jordan Air also makes a small indoor kite around the same price... don't remember the name but it is also a great performer. There are a lot of good choices in this group. Hoy BFK = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:02:16 -1000 From: barry a johnson Message-Id: <461clo$d55@ionews.ionet.net> Organization: IONet Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Robert I agree with Cliff on the precisionist it flys in lite wind and axles easier than any kite I have flown.A friend of mine has a k2, it flys well but it won't Fly as low wind or axle as well as the precisionist. good flying Barry = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 03:11:37 -1000 From: xfria@aol.com (XFRIA) Message-Id: <462ue9$lqp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight I would like to hear from the original poster for a definition of what he calls an ultralight, and what kind of price range he is looking at. All of the kites suggasted so far are great, but seem to be in a different price and performance class than the two first mentioned (the Griffin 3-stripe and the K2.) No disclaimers, it's just kites. Carpe Windum, Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:28:53 -1000 From: Steve Bateman Message-Id: <461vq5$fdt@hole.sdsu.edu> Organization: San Diego State University Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight bfk@aol.com (Bfk) wrote: > Skyburner makes a great super ul indoor kite. Simple graphics (actually > no graphics) keeps the cost reasonable and it is definitely a performer. > The retailer is right, the Skyburner ul is an excellent kite. I would get that if I were in your shoes. Steve Bateman bateman@mail.sdsu.edu Flying along. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 20:25:28 -1000 From: Dan Whitney Message-Id: Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight My vote would be for the "skyburner super ul prodancer." 4.8 oz. Framed in Black Diamond skinnys (wg) All of my flying has been in the outdoors with this kite. Tracks excellent,slides nicely, on doing the axle I does a nice (call it an axle spin ) just have the nose of the kite just a little more flat back flips with recovery are done rarely. I have done a lot of nasty things with this kite and no tears or broken rods. The colors are solid with some choice of L/E colors. Your choice of line weights with any of the mention kites is important. If you do purchase an ul kite and you would like to add some weight for whatever reason, you might experiment with heavier rods I will be trying this myself soon. The X 4 i is another choice-lots of fun with this kite Buena Vista kites has a winner with this little guy. Try it on long line 35# 75 ft. Have lots of fun It does the tricks. Dan = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 01:35:36 -1000 From: kyteflier@aol.com (Kyteflier) Message-Id: <462oq8$j22@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight In article <45u9jc$41u@vodka.intele.net>, rbott@intele.net (Robert Bott) writes: >Subject: Recommendations for full size ultralight >From: rbott@intele.net (Robert Bott) >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 16:51:00 GMT > >Hello, > Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, I'm >looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform >well. (axle etc.) > >Two local suggestions are the Griffin 3-Stripe and the K-2. > >I haven't seen either of these kites fly and would appreciate any feedback on >these or others that may fit the purpose. > >Thanks, > rbott@SavageInd.com > > Since you mentioned the K2 have you seen the Air F/X also by Aerie Kiteworks? Ken makes the "standard" Air F/X with G-force ultralight spars which flies great in winds of 2-3 mph (some people have flown it even lower.) If you are looking for a indoor or just a very very low wind outdoor kite (up to about 5 mph) then Ken makes a "super light" (SL) version of the Air F/X framed with G-force skinnies. This kite axels like a dream and does all the tricks. Ken has designed both versions to be adjustable to your individual flying style by giving you 2 upper spreaders, adjustable positions for the standoffs and fully adjustable outhauls. The construction is the best I've seen anywhere. The Air F/X is the best kite in my bag and I HIGHLY recommend it. Disclaimer: I have no financial or business interest in Aerie Kiteworks, Rockford,IL.. Dan Brinnehl Kyteflier@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 02:52:22 -1000 From: rbott@intele.net (Robert Bott) Message-Id: <4634dn$o7n@vodka.intele.net> Organization: inteleNET Internet Services Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight In article <462ue9$lqp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, xfria@aol.com (XFRIA) wrote: >I would like to hear from the original poster for a definition of what he >calls an ultralight, and what kind of price range he is looking at. > > All of the kites suggasted so far are great, but seem to be in a >different price and performance class than the two first mentioned (the >Griffin 3-stripe and the K2.) > >No disclaimers, it's just kites. > >Carpe Windum, > >Ken > Hello, I was the original poster. I'm looking for a kite to fly in low speed outdoor winds. The reason I had thought of the k-2 and three stripe was that the Into-The-Wind catalog clasified them as radical ultalights with a wind range starting at 2 MPH. It sounds as if that was misleading. The poster who sugested the fizz Phantom Elite UL seems to be right on track with what I'm looking for. (A fairly radiacal kite that will fly in low wind, and not as fragile and light as an indoor kite.) Any other sugestions of similar kites would be apreciated. I still plan on contacting precision kite Co. Is there a mail order company with a catalog that would have a picture of a Phantom Elite UL? What is the aproximate cost and wingspan of this kite? The local kite shop does not cary these, (or anything in the category I'm looking for) thanks. rbott@savageind.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:24:20 -1000 From: mss@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <199510182024.QAA18911@endor.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Neumeier Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Robert Bott wrote: > Hello, > Most of the time the winds near my home are slow therefore, I'm > looking to buy a kite that will fly in very low winds and be able to perform > well. (axle etc.) > > Two local sugestions are the Griffin 3-Stripe and the K-2. > > I haven't seen either of these kites fly and would apreciate any feedback on > these or others that may fit the purpose. Hi, I think the regular Griffin 3-Stripe might not be as "Ultralight" as you might want. There is a Griffin 3-Stripe SUL (meaning Super Ultra Light) which comes with Icarex and wrapped graphite spars. This costs about $50 more, but may be more what you're looking for. I flew the regular Griffin 3-Stripe once. It flew well, nothing spectacular, but I don't think it would have done well in lighter winds. Maybe look at a Prism Macro Ion. Good Luck! ******************************************************** *Greetings from behind the redwood curtain; Arcata, CA * *Dave Neumeier don1@axe.humboldt.edu :) * ******************************************************** = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:15:00 -1000 From: dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight Robert Bott (rbott@intele.net) wrote: : In article <462ue9$lqp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, xfria@aol.com (XFRIA) wrote: : >I would like to hear from the original poster for a definition of what he : >calls an ultralight, and what kind of price range he is looking at. : > : > All of the kites suggasted so far are great, but seem to be in a : >different price and performance class than the two first mentioned (the : >Griffin 3-stripe and the K2.) : > : >No disclaimers, it's just kites. : > : >Carpe Windum, : > : >Ken : > : Hello, : I was the original poster. I'm looking for a kite to fly in low speed outdoor : winds. The reason I had thought of the k-2 and three stripe was that the : Into-The-Wind catalog clasified them as radical ultalights with a wind range : starting at 2 MPH. It sounds as if that was misleading. : The poster who sugested the fizz Phantom Elite UL seems to be right on track : with what I'm looking for. (A fairly radiacal kite that will fly in low wind, : and not as fragile and light as an indoor kite.) Any other sugestions of : similar kites would be apreciated. I still plan on contacting precision kite : Co. : Is there a mail order company with a catalog that would have a picture of a : Phantom Elite UL? What is the aproximate cost and wingspan of this kite? The : local kite shop does not cary these, (or anything in the category I'm looking : for) : thanks. : rbott@savageind.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell dickbell@netcom.com Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 22:24:59 -1000 From: Aaron Bass <76263.3525@compuserve.com> Message-Id: <46520r$mh2$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight The Air FX is the best kite I have ever flown and its range is about 2 or 3 to 20. (1/2 oz. Icarex, G-Force tapered wraps). It is made by the same company that produces the K2. The Air FX is ultralight, but not indoor, however I think there is a version available framed in skinnies that is suitable for indoors. PS-Marty, I think the Griffin 3-Stripe is UL (Carrington and Beman Strong 16s) and the 5-Stripe is SUL (1/2 oz. Icarex and Advantage wraps). Aaron = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:26:54 -1000 From: Bob Steele Message-Id: <308AFD6E.24C8@best.com> Organization: Best Internet Communications Subject: Re: Recomendations for full size ultralight oh dan, you know as well as anyone that i sold my skyburner super ul prodancer, just so i could buy the XTC ( 5 oz. ) feather from buena vista. the prodancer is a great ballet kite but the entire XTC line has kites for all kinds of wind. the feather is full of all kinds of radical moves ( axels like crazy, in all kinds of crazy modes, as sharp as hands can move ) in nearly no wind ( ie < 1 mph. ) i haven't bought the feather yet since the bay area winds are only beginning to come down from their usual summer 15-25+ range. ( sorry guys, just the truth. ) in light winds, you can re-time the hit on your axel and actually GAIN elevation from the move. significant amounts ( ~10 feet. ) i do have though a pro-comp XTC ( 6 oz. ) for the 1-4 range. it's all a question of if you like how an XTC flies, you can find one in the correct wind range. they're a little on the high side price-wise, but once i got started, everything else seems useless. bob -- bob steele bsteele@best.com http://www.best.com/~bsteele = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =