Date: 29 Apr 93 01:01:26 CST From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Message-Id: <1993Apr29.010126.49618@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Subject: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) In article <9304281157.aa02007@paradise.hackney.org>, paulb@paradise.hackney.or [edited] > During a force 6 I flew both my foils...(:-() I had a >body harness and attached myself to the front of my campervan. >The rope used was not bungee.During the two > minutes of my being dragged from left to right I must have been stretched. > Two minutes of extreame pain. My wrists have never been the same. The line > (300lb) broke. My brother swears to this day that the campervan moved. > > I would be only to happy to hear of other stories. Not just relating to foils. Although to a lot of people this might sound fun- I have a bone to pick, actually a few bones to pick... NEVER wear wrist straps when power flying! With the amount of pull possible with todays power kites- it becomes very difficult to release one (or both) straps during an emergency. I have also broke 300lb line while flying a 5.1m Peel, but I was useing handles at the time. (on a related topic) I personally beleive (here it goes again) that there is no reason to use a harness when flying a power kite- if you can't hold on to it, maybe you shouldn't fly it. (Now granted, there won't be a harness burning ceremony after this posting reaches the 11000 readers) If you have a harness and still plan to use it- at least try using the safety release system while in the worst possible scenario- possibly the kite in the power zone, and you on your stomach being dragged forward. (back to the topic) Also granted that people feel a need to tie themselves down to something while they are power flying- I suggest the following: If you want to hover above the ground, do chin-ups. Don't use a power kite with a body harness tied down (especially to something with wheels!!!!) NOW the conclusion of my sermon: Anytime you are in a dangerous situation- let go of one handle. If, after you let go of one handle, the kite still spins and you are being dragged forward, let go of the second handle. Paul Kalowski A guy who hates to see people get hurt (THIS IS NOT A FLAME, just giving my safety sermon) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 10:50:56 GMT From: it1jk@de-montfort.ac.uk (Groove Patrol Station 3) Message-Id: <13286.9304291050@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) > NEVER wear wrist straps when power flying! With the amount of > pull possible with todays power kites- it becomes very difficult > to release one (or both) straps during an emergency. I have > also broke 300lb line while flying a 5.1m Peel, but I was useing > handles at the time. > (on a related topic) > I personally beleive (here it goes again) that there is no > reason to use a harness when flying a power kite- if you > can't hold on to it, maybe you shouldn't fly it. (Now > granted, there won't be a harness burning ceremony after > this posting reaches the 11000 readers) > If you have a harness and still plan to use it- at least try > using the safety release system while in the worst possible > scenario- possibly the kite in the power zone, and you on > your stomach being dragged forward. > (back to the topic) > Also granted that people feel a need to tie themselves down > to something while they are power flying- I suggest the following: > If you want to hover above the ground, do chin-ups. Don't > use a power kite with a body harness tied down (especially to > something with wheels!!!!) >NOW the conclusion of my sermon: > Anytime you are in a dangerous situation- let go of one handle. If, > after you let go of one handle, the kite still spins and you are > being dragged forward, let go of the second handle. >Paul Kalowski Don't be so boring Paul! Power kites are there for the POWER! If people want to be lifted off the ground then let them! (Like I do.) The reason I do it is because it's about the nearest thing flying. For goodness sake - there's enough rules in the world, don't try to add more. I'm sure people who own power kites know the dangers of them - you just have to get one flexi up to find out. The bottom line of it is, as you say, if you get worried, let go of one handle. Its as simple as that. Maybe rec.kites should be split into rec.kites.safe and rec.kites.dangerous! What do you reckon? James K. Tight lines and good winds. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 29 Apr 1993 18:07:02 GMT From: northg@egr.msu.edu (George M North) Message-Id: <1rp5g6$m15@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: Michigan State University Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) I Have to agree with Marty! Too many times Have I seen People push Their Skills past there limits. Me included. while flying two team Kites stacked I lost my footing and before I knew it I was being Dragged face first across the ground. What I should have done was let go of one of the lines. What I did was take the kites off wind. while That did bring me to a stop it was 40 feet farther down the field then it should have been. When you are in a situation like that thinking and reason gives way to reaction and foolishness. Rules are needed to prevent the situation in the first place. But rules will never replace common sense and a little caution. Power Kiteing can be dangerous proceed with Caution. George. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 17:41:59 GMT From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Apr29.174159.12971@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) In article <13286.9304291050@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk>, it1jk@de-montfort.ac.uk (Groove Patrol Station 3) writes: >Don't be so boring Paul! Power kites are there for the POWER! If people want to >be lifted off the ground then let them! (Like I do.) > >The reason I do it is because it's about the nearest thing flying. For goodness >sake - there's enough rules in the world, don't try to add more. I'm sure people >who own power kites know the dangers of them - you just have to get one flexi up >to find out. No, people don't know the dangers. I've seen some near disasters with folks who have had considerable experience with flying, but little experience with power flying. Also, accidents do happen even for the best prepared flyers. Philosophically, people don't need rules if they have time to think things through, but when you have a kite dragging you across the field, most folks don't have the presence of mind to think things through. Having a few rules or guide lines make flying safer. >The bottom line of it is, as you say, if you get worried, let go of one handle. >Its as simple as that. Funny thing about this, I have never seen anyone let go of their handles. I have never seen anyone release the quick release on a harness. Even as people are being dragged across the field on their face, they don't want to let go. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Operations Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 17:36:08 GMT From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: Negligible. Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) In article <13286.9304291050@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk> it1jk@de-montfort.ac.uk (Groove Patrol Station 3) writes: >Don't be so boring Paul! Power kites are there for the POWER! If people want to >be lifted off the ground then let them! (Like I do.) > >The reason I do it is because it's about the nearest thing flying. For goodness >sake - there's enough rules in the world, don't try to add more. I'm sure >people who own power kites know the dangers of them - you just have to get >one flexi up to find out. > >The bottom line of it is, as you say, if you get worried, let go of one handle. >Its as simple as that. James, have your read any of my articles? I am into power kiting. I personaly own 6 10' flexifoils and a 5m Peel. I do a lot of flying. I have flown both of these rigs at kite festivals that have been abandoned because the wind was too strong. I flown stacks of up to 11 10' flexies. I have tried most variations of kite handle. I listen carefuly to the experiences of others. Anchoring a power kite is just plain too dangerous. I know someone who snapped a leg with *one* 10' flexifoil without any equipment failure. The power kiting community is *small* and a significant number of people are *dying*. Frequently flying *normal*stunt*kites* using wrist straps can lead to Carpal tunnel syndrome. Pass the strap round the back of your hand. Don't use padded straps, they make the correct grip difficult. The most comfortable grip (for me) is sky-claws (with the line more securely attached). Aside from wrist damage (a progressive problem), wrist straps are difficult to remove whilst sliding on your belly at 20mph (they don't just fall off, you have to pull your hand out of them - I learnt this the hard way). Your handles must be comfortable and fail-safe: Sky-claws are the only things that you can let go of whilst unconcious (sp?) As a rule, don't anchor the line to *anything*, however some applications eg: long distance kite sailing call for a harness etc. For this, you can buy fail-safe handles from Peter Lynn, that release the flying line when you let go. If you want to jump, consider: 1) If you brace against a solid object (such as a concrete post) and you slip, the first thing that you will hit will be a solid object :-) 2) The harder you brace, the harder you will hit the ground. 3) The lower the kite is in the sky when you jump, the more forward speed you will have when you land. If you *really* want to jump, may I suggest a much bigger rig. 8 or 9 flexies taken through the right manoever will take you *well* clear of the ground, with no bracing, depositing you (fairly) gently with a reasonable forward speed. This can all be done without placing undue strain on either you or your equipment, because you do it all with the stack within the top 20 degrees of the window. >Maybe rec.kites should be split into rec.kites.safe and rec.kites.dangerous! >What do you reckon? The problem is that the difference between r.k.very.dangerous and r.k.exciting is not always intuitive or obvious: Ask any man in the street what to do with a power-kite that pulls too hard and he will suggest an anchor. The safe thing to do is to slide to deprive the sail of wind. Andrew -- andrew@tug.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 11:21:49 GMT From: ye79@gec-mrc.co.uk (ye79) Message-Id: <1993Apr30.112355.21769@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) In a rec.kites article andrew@tug.com writes: > If you *really* want to jump, may I suggest a much bigger rig. 8 or 9 flexies > taken through the right manoever will take you *well* clear of the ground, > with no bracing, depositing you (fairly) gently with a reasonable forward > speed. This can all be done without placing undue strain on either you or > your equipment, because you do it all with the stack within the top 20 > degrees of the window. Do you (or anybody else) have any further advice on learning to jump? A tutorial introduction would be useful. Up until now I have been content to be dragged about fields and beaches by my two 10' flexies. I've been told that I can use my flexies to jump by lying in a ditch with my feet braced against the side and flying up through the centre of the power zone. I felt I'd rather watch someone who knows what they're doing do this first :-) Is it possible to build up to jumping *from* the ground by jumping *off* things, campervans :-) or sanddunes perhaps, with the kites overhead (or toward the top of the power zone)? Or would a larger stack be required for jumping in any circumstances? If you have a big stack can you jump in low/moderate winds? Any information on learning to jump *safely* would be gratefully received. Chris -- Chris Willis (ye79@uk.co.gec-mrc) GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Essex UK = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 1 May 93 11:10:49 +1200 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) Andrew Beattie (andrew@tug.com) wrote: : In article <13286.9304291050@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk> it1jk@de-montfort.ac.uk -- : andrew@tug.com Not an answer to your posting Andrew.............. Re: MAIL BOUNCE What happened to _you_ ? Your private mail has been bouncing and you have only just resumed posting on the Net. Here's an old message I sent you which bounced from 'tug' - a bit old hat now I'm afraid. *8-) ############################################# >From equinox.gen.nz!satori.equinox.gen.nz!ibmpcug.co.uk!uucp Sat, 17 Apr 93 10:59:52 +1200 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 23:45:43 BST Message-Id: <9304162345.aa23954@kate.ibmpcug.co.uk> From: UUCP administrator Subject: Undeliverable Mail This mail message is undeliverable. (Probably to or from system 'tug') It was sent to you or by you. Sorry for the inconvenience. Sincerely, kate!uucp ############################################# ##### Data File: ############################ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 93 06:53:22 +1200 Message-Id: <9304101853.AA0dcrh@equinox.gen.nz> From: Colin Douthwaite Subject: Re: Tuning ( or NOT !! ) Thanks for your comments Andrew. When I got the kite ( a birthday prezzie from my family ) we *were* members of the general public, in fact, come to think of it, we still are ! I might just have a tinker with those bridles. You are kind to suggest I know a little more than the GP, you may be right, I'm not sure. The High-Performer may well be a crude kite but I have become sentimentally attached to it. Perhaps it should have been discarded years ago. It needs a lot of wind so the chances to fly it are limited. In 1976 it was really new - Stunter Kites for the masses ! Yesterday, nothing would fly except flimsy Indian Fighters ( with tails of course, I still can't fly 'em without ). Regards, *8-) -------------------- end of old message -------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 7 May 93 13:27:57 GMT From: sc5@prism.gatech.edu (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) Message-Id: <96595@hydra.gatech.EDU> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) >>Any information on learning to jump *safely* would be gratefully > >Does kite insurance cover this? > I doubt it. Atleast as far as the AKA insurance policy is concerned. Two problems as I see it. First, the AKA insurance is LIABILITY insurance. In other words, you personally are not covered for injury, only injury you do to some one else or their property. Secondly, jumping is a power kiting activity that is not at this time condoned by the AKA. It is not condemmed either. Really, we are rather neutral right now about it. -- The Mad Hata "Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 12:44:37 GMT From: puc@aber.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) Message-Id: <1993May7.124437.24234@aber.ac.uk> Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth Subject: Re: Sermon (was Re: Flexifoils) In article <1993Apr30.112355.21769@das.harvard.edu> ye79@gec-mrc.co.uk (ye79) writes: > >Do you (or anybody else) have any further advice on learning to jump? >A tutorial introduction would be useful. > > >Any information on learning to jump *safely* would be gratefully >received. > >Chris >-- >Chris Willis (ye79@uk.co.gec-mrc) GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Essex UK > Try to obtain a copy of "kiting" (I think), the publication distributed by the Kite Company, Bath. It's mainly a promo/catalogue but has a two- page spread on leaping with advice from the current world record holder. Does kite insurance cover this? Paul (puc@aber.ac.uk) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =