Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 16:21:00 -1000 From: jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) Message-Id: <1993Nov22.022523.27897@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Spars.. Anybody know anything tangible about a product called "RIDICULITE SPARS" ? I have heard things about them being stiffer than Skyshark VP and lighter than G-Force lights ? True ? Gotta know these things.. can't sleep at night... Also, what kites use them ( if they exist ) and are the produced stock ? Jason = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 09:21:15 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Nov22.192115.6721@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Spars.. In article <1993Nov22.022523.27897@das.harvard.edu>, jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) writes: >Anybody know anything tangible about a product called "RIDICULITE SPARS" ? >I have heard things about them being stiffer than Skyshark VP and lighter than >G-Force lights ? True ? > Gotta know these things.. can't sleep at night... Windsports (which is changing their name soon, sorry don't know what the new name is) makes three tapered, wrapped graphite rods. The standard weighs in between 16 and 17 grams for a 32.5 inch stick. The ultralight is 12-13 grams, and the skinny is 8-9 grams. The reason for the slight variation is because the sticks are made by hand. I've heard the skinnies called ridiculite spars. It is hard to determine how stiff the tapered rods really are. Where do you measure the stiffness? In the middle? Towards the small end? Towards the large end? The theory with them is that you have stiffness where you need it, near the middle of a rod. The tapered rod can also be a bit stronger, since the light weight is achieved by using a smaller diameter rather than a smaller wall thickness. The manufacturer also claims that shock and vibration are transferred from the skinny end to the thicker end. I don't know if this really works or not. >Also, what kites use them ( if they exist ) and are the produced stock ? Sky Burner kites uses these rods in their ultralite kites. Big Easy uses them in their MEFM, and deal uses them in his X-1 (and possibly others). I've started to experiment them in the Katana and the Katana-II. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 12:02:06 -1000 From: steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) Message-Id: Organization: VisionAire, San Francisco, CA Subject: Re: Spars.. In article <1993Nov22.022523.27897@das.harvard.edu> jbenedict@law.fordham.edu (Jason Benedict) writes: >Anybody know anything tangible about a product called "RIDICULITE SPARS" ? >I have heard things about them being stiffer than Skyshark VP and lighter than >G-Force lights ? True ? "Ridiculite" is a name coined by, if I'm not mistaken, Dean Jordan, to mean the Advantage 1.5 wrap by Revolution. I don't know about the Sharks, but they are a bit heavier than G-Force "skinnys", and probably a bit stiffer--although this tends to vary quite a bit with each batch of rods (from what I've heard, anyhow). >Also, what kites use them ( if they exist ) and are the produced stock ? I'm not sure: I believe Buena Vista might be using Advantage 1.5 for the spine and top spreader of the Indoor XTC (the rest is framed in G-force)--but don't quote me on that. I know that both BV and JordanAire has experimented with the rods. They are fairly new, and its quite possible that Rev is still perfecting their processes... -- _______ Steve Thomas steveth@netcom.com "I'm doing just fine. I took stock in a Mace company right before society crumbled." -- Selma/Simpson's = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 11:28:09 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Nov23.212809.22211@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Spars.. In article , steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) writes: >I don't know about the Sharks, but they are a bit heavier than G-Force >"skinnys", and probably a bit stiffer--although this tends to vary quite >a bit with each batch of rods (from what I've heard, anyhow). The new SkySharks (now made in the USA) are slightly heavier and noticeably stiffer and stronger than the older 'Sharks. The way to tell the difference is that the new 'Sharks have the name imprinted on them, while the old ones had a label glued on. The 3p Sharks are 11.5 grams per 32.5 inch stick. They are more rigid and definitely stronger than Advantage 2 wrap. The 5p Sharks are 13.5 grams with an Advantage 3 wrap stiffness. Just for comparison, an Advantage 2 wrap is 14 grams. If you ask the folks at HSTG about lighter rods, they will admit to an 8 gram rod. They are hesitant to sell them to people in general because they are pretty fragile. They are tougher than Advantage 1.5 wraps, but are still easy to break. The Advantage 1.5 wraps, in the larger (.25 inch) diameter are pretty fragile. They can be crushed by using moderate finger pressure. By comparison, the G-Force skinnys are stronger (they are harder to break) but seem to be a bit more flexible (again hard to determine because of the taper). -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 06:19:26 -1000 From: ilh@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) Message-Id: Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems Subject: Re: Spars.. In article <1993Nov23.212809.22211@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: | The new SkySharks (now made in the USA) are slightly heavier and | noticeably stiffer and stronger than the older 'Sharks. The way to | tell the difference is that the new 'Sharks have the name imprinted on | them, while the old ones had a label glued on. | | The 3p Sharks are 11.5 grams per 32.5 inch stick. They are more rigid | and definitely stronger than Advantage 2 wrap. The 5p Sharks are 13.5 | grams with an Advantage 3 wrap stiffness. Just for comparison, an | Advantage 2 wrap is 14 grams. I just got a catalog update from Hang-em High. It looks like they have the new SkySharks. The interesting thing is that the new ones come in both 32.5" size and 36" size. The prices are roughly $6.00 - $6.50 a stick. -- Lee Hetherington ilh@lcs.mit.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:32:13 -1000 From: g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) Message-Id: <61406.8612249@magnet.at> Organization: magnet Online Service Subject: spars Hi rec.kiters! Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >From some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, which one is less easy to destroy. I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. Greetings from Vienna Gertraud Umlauft --- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:32:13 -1000 From: g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) Message-Id: <61406.8612182@magnet.at> Organization: magnet Online Service Subject: spars Hi rec.kiters! Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >From some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, which one is less easy to destroy. I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. Greetings from Vienna Gertraud Umlauft --- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:32:13 -1000 From: g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) Message-Id: <61406.8611960@magnet.at> Organization: magnet Online Service Subject: spars Hi rec.kiters! Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >From some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, which one is less easy to destroy. I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. Greetings from Vienna Gertraud Umlauft --- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:32:13 -1000 From: g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) Message-Id: <61406.8612040@magnet.at> Organization: magnet Online Service Subject: spars Hi rec.kiters! Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >From some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, which one is less easy to destroy. I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. Greetings from Vienna Gertraud Umlauft --- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:32:13 -1000 From: g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) Message-Id: <61406.8612101@magnet.at> Organization: magnet Online Service Subject: spars Hi rec.kiters! Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >From some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, which one is less easy to destroy. I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. Greetings from Vienna Gertraud Umlauft --- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 04:29:47 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <4a49cr$o5t@ankka.csc.fi> Organization: STACK Finland Subject: Re: spars In <61406.8612182@magnet.at> g.umlauft@magnet.at (Gertraud Umlauft) writes: >Hi rec.kiters! >Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >from some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the >G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies >and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, >which one is less easy to destroy. >I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. I used SkyShark Response 12 g at LE on wingtip in my light wind competition Raaseri last season. I did not break any of them:-) Before I had there SkyShark IIIp and broke 3-4 in a season. The stiffness of a tapered spar is a tricky matter, but not as variable as you would expect from the diameter. Smooth Winds Simo >Greetings from Vienna >Gertraud Umlauft >--- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft -- Simo.Salanne@csc.fi STACK Finland & STARRC Chair ==================================================================== PGP public key on home page http://www.kfs.org/kites/simo/simo.html = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:42:51 -1000 From: Ken Nealey Message-Id: <4a7cjb$oo3@tkhut.sojourn.com> Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Subject: Re: spars In my earlier post, I made reference to the Black Diamond Lite rod, it should be the Black Diamond Slimline Rod. After realizing my error, I tried to retrieve the post, but it was to late. Sorry for any inconvience. Ken Nealey = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:40:28 -1000 From: knealey@sojourn.com (Ken Nealey) Message-Id: <4a75g7$kuo@tkhut.sojourn.com> Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Subject: Re: spars Here is a comparison of tapered spars that are comparable to the G- Force Skinny: RS = Relative Stiffness (K-75 = 1) SF = Scale Factor Weight/ Spar RS SF Grams _______________________________________________________ Skyshark Response Zero .26 .72 7.43 Avia G-Force Skinny .34 .76 8.54 Black Diamond Lite .38 .78 8.75 If you are not familiar with the "Scale Factor" system, you can refer to Dave Lords web page (http://www.eskimo.com/~lord) for an explanation and examples of how to utilize it. I rank the durability (most durable to least durable) as follows: 1 = Skyshark Response Zero (most durable) 2 = Black Diamond Lite 3 = Avia G-Force Skinny (least durable) Of the spars listed above, the only one that I have broke is the G- Force Skinny. Personally, I use the Black Diamond Lite in my Skyburner Pro Dancer Super Ultralight. I have flown this same kite and frame through the entire 1995 competition season without a single rod failure. The subject kite has endured an incredible amount of use and abuse. It has been caught in wind gusts of 12-15 mph, it has been used as a demo kite on manufacturers demo fields (at the All-American in Grand Haven Michigan, a beginner flew it into a tree); at a tournament earlier this summer, a kite manufacturer from the southeast US stood in total amazement and watched as I put this kite through numerous wing-tip spikes, ground turtles, black holes, over center wing stands, etc. - sometimes flexing the frame to the point that even I thought the kite was going to simply explode. It has been flown indoors where despite being flown into basketball backboards, crashed on those hard wood gym floors and suffering other forms of abuse by experienced as well as inexperienced indoor flyers. Despite all of this use and abuse I have never broke a rod in this kite! Hope this helps answer your question. _________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer: I am a competitive flyer representative for Skyburner Kites/Black Diamond Rods. The information presented herein is based on my personal testing, research and experience. Further, same may and/or may not represent the position of Skyburner Kites/Black Diamond Rods regarding this matter. No further interests are either implied or expressed. _________________________________________________________________ Ken Nealey = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:08:06 -1000 From: navarrol@netcom.com (Larry Navarro) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Subject: Re: spars In article <61406.8612249@magnet.at>, Gertraud Umlauft wrote: >Hi rec.kiters! >Recentely we had a discussion about the quality of tappered spars. I know >from some kitefliers and - builders that they are very satisfied with the >G-force Skinnies. I would like if any one has experience with both skinnies >and SkyShark tappered spars of comparable weight. Which one is stiffer, >which one is less easy to destroy. >I would be glad to hear about your experience with those spars. > >Greetings from Vienna >Gertraud Umlauft > >--- OffRoad 1.9k registered to Gertraud Umlauft > I don't have any measured differences, but from flying and framing a kite with the new Skysharks, I can tell you that they are very durable and stiffer than the comparable G-force product. I had previously accidently crushed G-force skinnies when assembling or disassembling kites, and noticed a lot of frame flex when flying same kites. This is not the case with the Skyshark zeroes and golds. One rod that has received very little mention but I feel everyone considering building a SUL should consider is the newer skyshark 2P. We have team sets framed in both the golds and the 2P's and I can say that the 2P's perform extraordinarily well for their weight. 2P's were in the kites that we flew in both the precision and ballet programs at World Cup. (Tsunami is sponsored by Skyshark.) Larry Navarro = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =