Date:	Thu, 2 Jun 1994 19:34:24 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <Cqt3HC.Dr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

I'm cross-posting this to rec.fishing, and rec.kites (where Spectra
lines have been used for a long time) in the hopes that I can get my
questions answered.

I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and
came across "Spider Wire" - a braided Spectra fishing line. I've also
come across some in a Netcraft catalog - where its significantly
cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards).

Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to
.013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It
doesn't stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line
wire for flying 1/2-As.

Questions:

1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight

2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)

3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated
   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those
   "fisherman's knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where
   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the
   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What
   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?


I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing
^_^;;





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 02:49:05 -1000
From:	pwmeek@garnet.msen.com (Peter W. Meek)
Message-Id: <2sn8s1$ifu@nigel.msen.com>
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562)
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
<questions about Spectra)
: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight
It is better than a lot of materials for UV resistance, but
not UV-proof.

: 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)
Dunno, never tried, but I'd tend to assume so, for the same reason as you.

: 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated
:    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those
:    "fisherman's knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where
:    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the
:    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What
:    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?
Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow
braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover
entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double-
overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through
the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance
apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot.

: I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
: No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
: use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing
: ^_^;;
In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point
and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin>, use
Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although
it is not as UV-resistant; just don't leave the lines out in the sun
when you're not using them and they should last for years.
--
  --Pete <pwmeek@mail.msen.com>
...I studied with diligence Neptune's laws,
and these laws I tried to obey... <Joshua Slocum>


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 10:18:58 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <Cqu8FM.63G@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <Cqtzx7.Mu4@pnfi.forestry.ca>,
Larry Marshall <lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca> wrote:
>In <CqtuHy.3v7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

Sleeving..

>A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that's
>pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay
>the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something 
>dull, though, so that you don't tear through any fibres in the 
>sleeving.  I'm sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I've
>just used parachute cord and it works fine.

What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don't mean the stuff for
full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines
need sleeving, too.

>>Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. 

>I don't share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It's not used
>on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt
>it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable
>bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any
>of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren't there 
>rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but
>1/2A?

Sullivan sells Kevlar control lines. They aren't too popular, though.

>>By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites - you pull on
>>one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other
>
>Yeah, except you don't have to worry about your competitor getting
>you upwind and loose :-)

Yeah.. I'd like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^

>>The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at
>>Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper
>>than the Spectra, by the way.

>What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I've never used it for kite lines
>but from talking to those who have, it just doesn't hold up like Spectra.
>Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being 
>"too brittle".

Its fishing line. "Stren" brand, to be exact. On the same display case
for that matter.






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 05:17:57 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <CqtuHy.3v7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <2sn8s1$ifu@nigel.msen.com>,
Peter W. Meek <pwmeek@garnet.msen.com> wrote:
>Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

>Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow
>braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover
>entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double-
>overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through
>the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance
>apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot.

How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving?
"Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the
way..)

>: I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
>: No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
>: use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing
>: ^_^;;

>In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point
>and any friction cuts it instantly. 

Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. 

Something I'd forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how
easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able
to answer this one.

By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites - you pull on
one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other
way. The difference is that the lines are on a handle and you use one
hand to do the controlling. I've seen stunt kites flown like this,
except the "handle" is a 3 foot long broomstick. In fact, someone
sells a "combat trainer" kite, ostensibly for learning how to fly C/L
planes. There are also engineless C/L planes called "wind fliers". You
fly them on the downwind side of the circle when the wind blows,
assisting it now and then by whipping.

>For cutting wings off <grin>, use
>Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although
>it is not as UV-resistant; just don't leave the lines out in the sun
>when you're not using them and they should last for years.

The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at
Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper
than the Spectra, by the way.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 07:05:57 -1000
From:	sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki)
Message-Id: <CqtzHy.F23@das.harvard.edu>
Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes


In article <CqtuHy.3v7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving?
>"Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the
>way..)

Take a two foot length of thin wire (fishing leader or even your metal
C/L line and bend it back on itself. Thread this wire into the
sleeving material and then loop the spectra between the two sides of
the wire and pull it back.

>Something I'd forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how
>easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able
>to answer this one.

It is very slippery and does slide over itself. In this respect it
would probably work great for C/L.

Unfortunately, abrasion resistance is pretty low. Overall, Spectra is
fragile stuff. Be careful about snagging it on objects or on the
ground. If you do use it, check it periodically for nicks and abrasion
points.

>The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at
>Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper
>than the Spectra, by the way.

For a given breaking strength, Kevlar and Spectra are about the same
size in cross section. Stretching characteristics are also about the
same. Kevlar is a lot tougher though, and you don't have to worry so
much about abrasion and contact with other lines.

-- 
Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications
sasaki@noc.harvard.edu  Network Services Division    26 Green Street
617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
                        Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 04:54:58 -1000
From:	Kevin Ormerod <kevin.ormerod@columbiasc.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <CqttFn.KuD@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Organization: AT&T GIS, MSGSC
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes


>I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and
>came across "Spider Wire" - a braided Spectra fishing line. I've also
>come across some in a Netcraft catalog - where its significantly
>cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards).
>
>Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to
>..013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It
>doesn't stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line
>wire for flying 1/2-As.
>
>Questions:
>
>1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight
>
>2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)
>
>3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated
>   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those
>   "fisherman's knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where
>   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the
>   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What
>   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?
>
>
>I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
>No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
>use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing

Wow!  Control line.  It's been about 35 years since I fooled around with
C/L.  -- fun stuff.  

I use the polypro stuff for fishing.  I'd say it is fairly resistant to sunlight
and fuels.  I would suggest tying to a small snap using a polamar or
a trilene knot, then "seal" the knot with a tiny drop of super-glue.

I suspect you could fly a Cessna 180 with the .013 stuff :-)  I think I would
try something around .008 or about 20# test for 1/2 A.

The stuff is real slippery (good for loops) and that quality can be
enhanced by spraying with ACE or any other generic brand of silicone
lubricant.

Have fun.








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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 06:36:38 -1000
From:	lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall)
Message-Id: <Cqty5D.M5K@pnfi.forestry.ca>
Organization: Canadian Forest Service - Petawawa National Forestry Institute
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <Cqt3HC.Dr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight

I've never had any problems with my lines deteriorating.

>2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)

Wouldn't know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in
it (several people have asked what kind of motor I'm using) but there
really isn't one...honest :-)

>3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated
>   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those
>   "fisherman's knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where
>   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the
>   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What
>   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?

I'd really like to hear what the fishing folks say about this as it's
the major bugaboo.  In kiting we sleeve each line before making a
bend in it as the stuff is very brittle when bent.  We use parachute
chord and thread the Spectra through it.  Then we can loop the cord 
back and tie it without problems.  

This is true of normal fishing line as well and a simple knot will 
reduce the line strength by an order of magnitude.  Thus, there 
are several knots that try to get around this and are somewhat
successful.  They amount to wrapping the line back on itself and
around itself.  This increases strength by the simple redundancy
so that the knot itself, while it weakens the area by the tying, 
doesn't completely give up the strength.  In stunt kiting, though,
we want 150-200lb test lines with the diameter of 6lb monofilament.

>I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
>No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
>use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing

This is really the downside of Spectra.  It's SHARP.  Any stunt kiter
who tells you they've never been cut by it either hasn't used it very 
long or they're lying :-)


--
===========================================================================
# Larry Marshall                          ./\.  lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca #
# Canadian Forest Service              _|\|  |/|_                         #
# Petawawa National Forestry Institute \        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 #
# Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         >______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 #
# CANADA                                   /                              #
===========================================================================



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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 07:15:03 -1000
From:	lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall)
Message-Id: <Cqtzx7.Mu4@pnfi.forestry.ca>
Organization: Canadian Forest Service - Petawawa National Forestry Institute
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <CqtuHy.3v7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving?
>"Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the
>way..)

A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that's
pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay
the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something 
dull, though, so that you don't tear through any fibres in the 
sleeving.  I'm sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I've
just used parachute cord and it works fine.

>>In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point
>>and any friction cuts it instantly. 

>Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. 

I don't share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It's not used
on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt
it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable
bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any
of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren't there 
rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but
1/2A?

>Something I'd forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how
>easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able
>to answer this one.

This is not a problem.  You can wrap them up quite a lot before you
start feeling friction problems.  It's probably better than braided
metal in this respect.


>By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites - you pull on
>one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other

Yeah, except you don't have to worry about your competitor getting
you upwind and loose :-)

>>For cutting wings off <grin>, use
>>Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although
>>it is not as UV-resistant; just don't leave the lines out in the sun
>>when you're not using them and they should last for years.

>The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at
>Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper
>than the Spectra, by the way.

What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I've never used it for kite lines
but from talking to those who have, it just doesn't hold up like Spectra.
Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being 
"too brittle".


--
===========================================================================
# Larry Marshall                          ./\.  lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca #
# Canadian Forest Service              _|\|  |/|_                         #
# Petawawa National Forestry Institute \        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 #
# Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         >______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 #
# CANADA                                   /                              #
===========================================================================



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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 13:23:07 -1000
From:	helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo)
Message-Id: <CquGyK.D6L@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Organization: Honolulu Community College
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <Cqty5D.M5K@pnfi.forestry.ca> lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes:
>Wouldn't know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in
>it (several people have asked what kind of motor I'm using) but there
>really isn't one...honest :-)
*************
I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they
fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite
itself?


Helen R. Rapozo            | cs_rapozo@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu
Honolulu Community College | helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu
874 Dillingham Blvd.       | 
Honolulu, HI 96817         | 
Ph#: (808) 845-9202        | 


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Date:	Fri, 3 Jun 1994 21:57:03 -1000
From:	salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Message-Id: <2spc4f$f7d@pobox.csc.fi>
Organization: Centre for Scintific Computing
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <CquGyK.D6L@news.Hawaii.Edu> helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo) writes:

>In article <Cqty5D.M5K@pnfi.forestry.ca> lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes:
>>Wouldn't know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in
>>it (several people have asked what kind of motor I'm using) but there
>>really isn't one...honest :-)
>*************
>I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they
>fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite
>itself?

The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge
of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like
sound.

Simo
--
Simo.Salanne@csc.fi                      STACK Finland


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Date:	Sat, 4 Jun 1994 03:57:55 -1000
From:	lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall)
Message-Id: <CqvLGM.GLB@pnfi.forestry.ca>
Organization: Canadian Forest Service - Petawawa National Forestry Institute
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <2spc4f$f7d@pobox.csc.fi> salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes:


>The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge
>of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like
>sound.

Gee Simo...did you really think I didn't know that?  I was joking
about the motor.


--
===========================================================================
# Larry Marshall                          ./\.  lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca #
# Canadian Forest Service              _|\|  |/|_                         #
# Petawawa National Forestry Institute \        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 #
# Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         >______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 #
# CANADA                                   /                              #
===========================================================================



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Date:	Sat, 4 Jun 1994 03:54:51 -1000
From:	lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall)
Message-Id: <CqvLBK.GIK@pnfi.forestry.ca>
Organization: Canadian Forest Service - Petawawa National Forestry Institute
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <Cqu8FM.63G@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don't mean the stuff for
>full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines
>need sleeving, too.

I guess I'm showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed
for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that
IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  And yes, Kevlar
should be sleeved also.

>Yeah.. I'd like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^

--
===========================================================================
# Larry Marshall                          ./\.  lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca #
# Canadian Forest Service              _|\|  |/|_                         #
# Petawawa National Forestry Institute \        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 #
# Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         >______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 #
# CANADA                                   /                              #
===========================================================================



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Date:	Sun, 5 Jun 1994 01:29:57 -1000
From:	salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Message-Id: <2sscvl$amm@pobox.csc.fi>
Organization: Centre for Scintific Computing
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In <CqvLGM.GLB@pnfi.forestry.ca> lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes:
>In <2spc4f$f7d@pobox.csc.fi> salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes:

>>The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge
>>of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like
>>sound.

>Gee Simo...did you really think I didn't know that?  I was joking
>about the motor.

Now you can be stronger in your faith...
Simo

--
Simo.Salanne@csc.fi                      STACK Finland


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Date:	Mon, 6 Jun 1994 16:11:22 -1000
From:	sbixby@crl.com (Steven W. Bixby)
Message-Id: <2t0l0a$gn9@crl.crl.com>
Organization: CRL
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a
: kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading
: edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too
: think - it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!
  ^^^^^

Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.)

:)

-- 
     -swb- (Steve Bixby, sbixby@crl.com)


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Date:	Mon, 6 Jun 1994 12:57:18 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <CqzzrJ.M0o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <2sn8s1$ifu@nigel.msen.com>,
Peter W. Meek <pwmeek@garnet.msen.com> wrote:
>Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
><questions about Spectra)

>: I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
>: No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
>: use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing
>: ^_^;;

>In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point
>and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin>, use
>Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although
>it is not as UV-resistant; just don't leave the lines out in the sun
>when you're not using them and they should last for years.

Heh...

Speaking of cutting off wings..

Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a
kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading
edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too
think - it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Mon, 6 Jun 1994 07:32:39 -1000
From:	pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Message-Id: <4578@niktow.canisius.edu>
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <CqvLBK.GIK@pnfi.forestry.ca>, lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes:
> In <Cqu8FM.63G@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> 
> >What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don't mean the stuff for
> >full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines
> >need sleeving, too.
> 
> I guess I'm showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed
> for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that
> IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  
> 
  People also use parachute cord to make "slinkies".  "Slinkies" are short 
  lengths of parachute cord stuffed with lead (preferably steel...) shot,
  used as substitutes for sinkers/split shot in drift-fishing rivers/streams
  with snaggy bottoms.  Slinkies are less prone to snagging. 





  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org




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Date:	Tue, 7 Jun 1994 06:18:00 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <Cr1By0.D3z@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <4578@niktow.canisius.edu>,
Greg Pavlov <pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu> wrote:
>In article <CqvLBK.GIK@pnfi.forestry.ca>, lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) writes:
>> In <Cqu8FM.63G@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>> 
>> >What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don't mean the stuff for
>> >full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines
>> >need sleeving, too.
>> 
>> I guess I'm showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed
>> for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that
>> IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  
>> 
>  People also use parachute cord to make "slinkies".  "Slinkies" are short 
>  lengths of parachute cord stuffed with lead (preferably steel...) shot,
>  used as substitutes for sinkers/split shot in drift-fishing rivers/streams
>  with snaggy bottoms.  Slinkies are less prone to snagging. 

So is Parachute Cord hollow, or do you have to pull the inner filler
out? All the braided line I've seen has an inner core. What diameter
are we talking about for sleeving? I imagine the stuff used for
"slinkies" is of a larger diameter.






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Tue, 7 Jun 1994 06:21:46 -1000
From:	ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Message-Id: <Cr1C4B.DAn@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

In article <2t0l0a$gn9@crl.crl.com>, Steven W. Bixby <sbixby@crl.com> wrote:
>Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
>
>: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a
>: kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading
>: edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too
>: think - it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!
>  ^^^^^
>
>Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.)
>
>:)

It was rope jr. ^_^;;

Looks like I'm going to have to learn to splice wings.. my planes
usually get thrown away (actually I have 15-20 moldering away in a
closet ^_^;;) after getting damaged (usually because I come up with
new hotter designs) but this one was the second newest one in my
fleet!



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !


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Date:	Wed, 15 Jun 1994 07:56:40 -1000
From:	leer@fc.hp.com (Lee Reep)
Message-Id: <2tnfco$9a6@tadpole.fc.hp.com>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
Subject: Re: Spectra line for C/L airplanes

Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

: I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and
: came across "Spider Wire" - a braided Spectra fishing line. I've also
: come across some in a Netcraft catalog - where its significantly
: cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards).

[...]

: I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models.
: No, I don't plan to try this stuff in Combat - it'd be interesting to
: use it as a streamer leader though - cut off the other guy's wing

[...]

I have had much success on model rockets to use the pre-assembled fishing
leaders that you find at Walmart, Kmart, etc.  Usually has 12" small diameter
wire, with connector on one end, and snap swivel on the other.  Either
mount them under a centering ring if length permits, or epoxy them to the
airframe wall.  I suggest making the swivel about even with top of airframe
to minimize zippering the body tube, but I've had good luck with letting
them hang out.  Attach shock cord to swivel end of the leader.
--
         /\       Lee Reep                    voice: 303/229-2010
    /\  /~~\  /\   Fort Collins, Colorado                TRA 2007
   /~~\/    \/~~\/\ email: leer@fc.hp.com               NAR 55948
__/____\____/___/~~\_____________________________________________


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