Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:40:08 -1000 From: fsiegel@linet02.li.net (Frank Siegel) Message-Id: <3pbnm8$7tk@linet02.li.net> Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Subject: Tip Stab Question I have seen several references to a maneuver called a "tip stab." I have had it described in several different ways- and am curious as to exactly what is done doing this maneuver. First, I have had people demonstrate a "tip stab" by flying to the edge of the wind window, lowering the kite until one wingtip touches the ground, then resuming flying. I have also seen it as part of a slide where the leading tip "stabs" the ground (which seems to put a *lot* of stress on the frame). Finally, I've had it described as a spin-landing where both tips hit the ground, and the kite is immediately relaunched- kind of a touch-and-go move. If anyone can steer me towards a FAQ or list of recognized descriptions of these radical moves, I'd appreciate it...TIA. Frank = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:05:37 -1000 From: tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com (Bert Tanaka) Message-Id: <9505232104.AA25524@us3rmc.pa.dec.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Tip Stab Question "fsiegel@linet02.li.net" "Frank Siegel" writes: Subj: Tip Stab Question I have seen several references to a maneuver called a "tip stab." I have had it described in several different ways- and am curious as to exactly what is done doing this maneuver. First, I have had people demonstrate a "tip stab" by flying to the edge of the wind window, lowering the kite until one wingtip touches the ground, then resuming flying. I have also seen it as part of a slide where the leading tip "stabs" the ground (which seems to put a *lot* of stress on the frame). Finally, I've had it described as a spin-landing where both tips hit the ground, and the kite is immediately relaunched- kind of a touch-and-go move. If anyone can steer me towards a FAQ or list of recognized descriptions of these radical moves, I'd appreciate it...TIA. Frank I don't know if the FAQ has any radical moves. The vanilla version of the Tip Stab is done out of a ground pass. As the kite is being flown toward the edge of the window, the bottom wingtip is planted forcefully into the ground by using an exagerated snap stall motion. One hand snaps the bottom wing down, while the other pushes the top wing down to produce an abrupt, landing in which the kite is snapped down to a wing tip stand. This maneuver is hard on leading edges. A more difficult version is to tip stab your kite so that it ends up pointing in toward the center of the window. The mother of all tip stabs is the "Black Hole", invented by Miguel Rodriguez. In this version, the kite is flown high up and then to a dive straight down. When it is about 10' above the ground, rotate the kite 90 degrees with a modified snap stall motion so that the spine is parallel to the ground. Then, pull the bottom wing down so that the kite drops, locked in this position, to a wing tip stand. The final drop is done with a lot of speed so that the kite looks like its disappearing into a "Black Hole". Hard to do with kites that have deep sails. The Cal Wasp, Buena Vista XTC, and Skyburner Pro Dancer are examples of kites that these stunts well. Good Winds, Bert = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 08:26:37 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3pt9ct$r5@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University - OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Tip Stab Question In article <3pbnm8$7tk@linet02.li.net>, fsiegel@newshost.li.net (Frank Siegel) writes: |>I have seen several references to a maneuver called a "tip stab." I have |>had it described in several different ways- and am curious as to exactly |>what is done doing this maneuver. I've always thought that a tip stab was a more forceful move. The tip of the spar is "stabbed" into the ground. The frame often flexes a great deal and it isn't difficult to break spars while practicing tip stabs. |>If anyone can steer me towards a FAQ or list of recognized descriptions |>of these radical moves, I'd appreciate it...TIA. There really is no agreed upon list of radical moves, although Dodd Gross has made an attempt to do so. Check out the KFS (look at Andrew Beattie's signature) for Dodd's list. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:13:12 -1000 From: djskites@aol.com (Djskites) Message-Id: <3pttmo$3iq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Tip Stab Question "fsiegel@linet02.li.net" "Frank Siegel" writes: Subj: Tip Stab Question I have seen several references to a maneuver called a "tip stab." I have had it described in several different ways- and am curious as to exactly what is done doing this maneuver. First, I have had people demonstrate a "tip stab" by flying to the edge of the wind window, lowering the kite until one wingtip touches the ground, then resuming flying. I have also seen it as part of a slide where the leading tip "stabs" the ground (which seems to put a *lot* of stress on the frame). Finally, I've had it described as a spin-landing where both tips hit the ground, and the kite is immediately relaunched- kind of a touch-and-go move. If anyone can steer me towards a FAQ or list of recognized descriptions of these radical moves, I'd appreciate it...TIA. Frank In my advanced class with MOST kites I explain it this way: The vertical Stab: flying a very close ground pass, the move is initiated somewhere before or after the center of the window while the kite still has power and pressure in the sail area. On most kites, the first action is to start an up turn by pulling the "up wing", while at the same time, dumping some air from the "up" wing. The second part actually pulls the "bottom wing" toward you, by pulling the "bottom wing" thus spilling air >From that wing and forcing that wing towards you. To speed up this action, the final move is a push with the "up wing" hand again. This is the basic 3 step move for a stab, which like Bert says, is basically a variation of a snap stall. This is done very quickly! This sequence of hand movements does vary from kite to kite ie. high aspect, low aspect etc., but try this much first, and you will be on your way. I suggest trying on this on your own kite, first slow, and above the ground until you see the exact combination that you and your kites needs to achieve this, then bring it down close to the ground and STAB! It is easier to do the "black Hole" as mentioned by Bert Tanaka, but I suggest to learn it, start at the top 5degrees to the right of the center of the window and end up 5 degrees to the left center, executing it the exact way I discribed above, but the first initial pull will be harder to pull the wing around further. Have fun! I hope this helps. Dodd Gross = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:07:04 -1000 From: Kobi Eshun Message-Id: <3q3nlo$rpc@hustle.rahul.net> Organization: a2i network Subject: Re: Tip Stab Question In article <3pbnm8$7tk@linet02.li.net>, Frank Siegel wrote: >I have seen several references to a maneuver called a "tip stab." I have >had it described in several different ways- and am curious as to exactly >what is done doing this maneuver. First, I have had people demonstrate a >"tip stab" by flying to the edge of the wind window, lowering the kite >until one wingtip touches the ground, then resuming flying. I have also >seen it as part of a slide where the leading tip "stabs" the ground >(which seems to put a *lot* of stress on the frame). Finally, I've had it >described as a spin-landing where both tips hit the ground, and the kite >is immediately relaunched- kind of a touch-and-go move. > >If anyone can steer me towards a FAQ or list of recognized descriptions >of these radical moves, I'd appreciate it...TIA. >Frank The kite should make a "stabbing" motion into the ground with one wing tip. In any other than light wind conditions, this maneuver can be very demanding on your frame, but it does not have to be. Team Avispa members use four variants of this move in our individual and team routines with the California Wasp: -- Plain Stab from a power dive, preferably in a healthy Berkeley wind of about 12 to 18 mph. Start the dive at the very top of the window, dead center. At the very last fraction of a second, when the kite is moving at about 75mph, snap stall the kite into a sideways stall, and take a step forward. This is possibly the most demanding maneuver on a kite, but it does get lots of attention (whether or not you get it right). I would not recommend this for most fliers. -- Plain Stab from a low ground pass, anywhere in the window. Looks coolest in the middle when the kite is really moving. The kite stops moving forward abruptly, and drops straight to the ground while locked in the 90-degree flight position. If the kite is going from right to left, crouch, left foot slightly forward. Punch left hand quickly, while leaning into forward foot. Follow quickly with a right punch, and take a couple of steps forward to keep the wind out of the sail. It is important to follow _quickly_ with the right punch. When your hands come to a rest, your left hand should have returned (_quickly_) close to your hip, and your right hand should be extended by about a foot and a half. With practice, you should be able to drop the kite from a good ten feet, at which point it starts to look suspiciously like a ... -- ...Black Hole, which starts with a dive from the middle of the window. See Bert Tanaka's excellent description somewhere in the archives. Both this and the previous move do not place undue stress on the kite when done right, but can result in accidental abuse while trying to master them. -- Hatchet. Another power move that looks better on a windier day. Picture the kite moving from left to right, about 15 feet high. At around the middle of the window, it starts on a tight downward arc. 90 degrees into the turn, in flattens briefly, and then stalls facing _left_, still dropping very fast until it stabs the deck. The stab happens a fraction of a second after the arc begins, to give an idea of the timescale. Now picture four kites doing it in unison. See ya in LA. -- kobi -- Kobi Eshun = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =