Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:40:32 -1000 From: smasilam@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shyama Masilamani) Message-Id: Organization: The Ohio State University Subject: Tuning a rokkaku Hello, I'm new here, sorry if this is a mundane question. I have read the faq and can't find an adequate answer. I just built my first kite, a Rokkaku 1.2(I found the directions on this newsgroup a couple weeks ago). Much to my surprise it flew fairly well on the first try. The only problem is that it tends to turn to the left all the time. A good bit of the time it flies erect but if it turns it is always to the left often looping until I let line out. It never once looped to the right. This is actually only my second kite, period. I have a Trlby diamond stunter which I don't have to adjust, only steer. I have not flown a single line kite. Is there some way to adjust the bridle to correct this left turn or must I dismantle the kite and then how minute an adjustment must be made to correct this problem. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I enjoy lurking here a lot. Bill Cook = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:50:39 -1000 From: griebeno@athena.mit.edu (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <45ud2f$fps@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Tuning a rokkaku Hi, to the Rokkaku question: The first thing I would recommend is to see whether the bridle is really centered. I guess since it is obvious, that is done. Second, if that doesn't help, replace the cross-spar(s) (try first the top-one). Under a lot of wind-pressure not all spars may bow evenly leading to the observed behaviour. I even observed such things with carbon spars. In these cases replacement of the spars was more easy than to try to fix the problem by moving the bridle point for compensation - because the phenomen only occurs under the pressure of the wind you miss-bridle then under normal conditions. To Sam Francis and his reply: I personally feel somewhat offended by your last posting concerning that no-one helped with the Rokkaku question of Shayama. I was not even involved so far in the aOXOmOXOa discussion because for me it has not a whole lot to do with my interests. I rarely even read the postings under that subject-line. I flew kites for years without knowing the meaning of the word. I couldn't care less. And I don't think that I am a jerk. I try my best - as a lot of other people - with my limited time, to help here and there. You can not really expect that all people who would know the answer to a lot of questions reply to everything. That would cost me a lot of time that I simply don't have - and other people maybe also not. And such language as the following: >>If I pissed any of you off...good. disqualifies you. It seems to me that this sentence could be considdered to originate from someone I could considder a jerk. But I try not to use such words anyway in my postings or e-mail. These words are exactly what leads to, as you stated: >>And Dave, you asked a good question, "Are we building bridges or >>barriers?" From my perspective, it looks to be barriers. Yes, you did it. Yourself. Share some responsibility. Happy Flying Kai = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 02:21:14 -1000 From: charlie@akg.u-net.com (Charlie Charlton) Message-Id: <45oa07$aq@oveja.u-net.com> Organization: The Artistic Kite Group Subject: Tuning a rokkaku I'm new here, sorry if this is a mundane question. I have read the faq and can't find an adequate answer. I just built my first kite, a Rokkaku 1.2(I found the directions on this newsgroup a couple weeks ago). Much to my surprise it flew fairly well on the first try. The only problem is that it tends to turn to the left all the time. A good bit of the time it flies erect but if it turns it is always to the left often looping until I let line out. It never once looped to the right. Bill Cook Dear Bill I am glad you made the kite from my design and I am glad you got it to fly there are several things you can try to stop the kite looping to the side. 1. If the kite only loops in strong winds, only fly it in light winds 2. If the kite only loops in strong winds, try replacing the spars with slightly thicker spars, say 5/16", or try 5.5mm Carbon fibre if you don't mind the expense 3. If the kite loops to the left or flies off left of center of the wind window try shortening the top right line very slightly, I am afraid it is just trial and error but try to adjust only small amounts at a time say 1/2cm or 1cm. 4. If this still doesn't work try shortening the bottom left line a little. 5. It may also be useful to bow the spars a little more to achieve a bit more stability. try bowing the bottom one a little more first. be careful not to overdo this as it releases the pressure on the middle bridle point I hope the above helps, the kite was not really intended to be a high performance kite but rather as a platform for artwork, I am curious did you use the five panel or single panel method of construction and did you use any edge binding, and did you put any artwork on the kite, what kind of ripstop did you use ? the problem is there are so many variables that it is difficult to account for everything and all levels of experience in one plan. I have now made 9 of these kites and even some of mine have veered off to one side at times, but I have managed to adjust them OK. Regards Charlie <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ The Artistic Kite Group http://www.u-net.com/~akg | charlie@akg.u-net.com ---- Sew the Sky ---- <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ <>~~~ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:20:16 -1000 From: samef@shout.net (Sam Francis) Message-Id: <45u16q$3cl@treflan.shout.net> Organization: Shouting Ground Technologies Subject: Re: Tuning a rokkaku smasilam@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shyama Masilamani) wrote: actually Bill Cook wrote: some clipped here and there> >Hello, >I'm new here, sorry if this is a mundane question. It's not. >I just built my first kite, a Rokkaku 1.2 1-point-2? Meters I guess? >(I found the directions on this newsgroup a couple weeks ago). Guess that would be my post. Meant it more as a description than directions though. Didn't discuss bridling or bow. If it is 1.2m it needs about 5more bow than larger rokkakus. Up to 15 423936nstead of 10the length of the horizontals. > A good bit of the time it flies erect but if it turns it is always to the > left often looping until I let line out. It never once looped to the right. > I have not flown a single line kite. Is there some way to adjust the > bridle to correct this left turn or must I dismantle the kite and then > how minute an adjustment must be made to correct this problem. Let's not dismantle anything yet. All single line kites turn one way or the other when they lose stability. If you were careful in the bridle measurements, and it goes straight up when launched in the center of the wind window, it's probably being towed too high or the bow of the horizontals is wrong. Send me e-mail and tell me how you bridled it. Also, tell me what the measurements are and how much bow you are using. > I enjoy lurking here a lot. > Bill Cook And Bill we are glad to have you. Lets try to sort this out. Put that seam-ripper away for now! Sam samef@shout.net = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:33:06 -1000 From: bluekites@inmind.com Message-Id: <45ufi2$ld8@mujibur.inmind.com> Organization: Blue Ridge Kites Subject: Re: Tuning a rokkaku > smasilam@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shyama Masilamani) writes: > Hello, > clip. The only problem is that it > tends to turn to the left all the time. A good bit of the time it flies erect > but if it turns it is always to the left often looping until I let line out. > It never once looped to the right. > No need to take it appart. Even if it is off in symetry, a bridle adjustment can correct the problem. First check that you have enough "bow" in the cross spars, this will give the kite stability. If you feel that you have enough, then examine the bridle for lack of symetry. Check to see that the lines are equal. Try moving the tow point to the right. Moving it in small amounts at a time. You should be able to tune the kite for stable flight. BTW don't feel bad about the turning, most kites require an initial period of tuning before the offer up stable flight. Through experimenting with the bridle, you will also learn a great deal about the kite. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:19:53 -1000 From: cvdunton@pinn.net (Charlie Dunton) Message-Id: <45v01d$7gq@everest.pinn.net> Organization: Pinnacle Online - Internet access for Hampton Roads, Virginia - 490-4509 Subject: Re: Tuning a rokkaku bluekites@inmind.com wrote: > BTW don't feel >bad about the turning, most kites require an initial period of tuning before >the offer up stable flight. There is an important implied lesson in this statement. As Charlie Charlton noted in a previous posting to this thread, many difficulties show up in strong winds that don't appear in lighter winds. And as any multiline flyer knows, new line stretches. It took me a while to realize that this stretching was affecting my bridle lines just it does a pair of 100 ft stunt lines. This stretching effect is going to be most evident when flying a new kite in strong winds. You find yourself adjusting the bridle to account for the vagaries of new construction while fighting line stretch. Then the next day the winds are lighter, the line doesn't stretch the same, and you have to start all over again. For this reason, I now keep some older line (but still in good condition) which I use strictly for bridles. It's especially important on your heavy wind flyers like Rokkakus. Charlie --- May you never stand in the shadow of your kite cvdunton@pinn.net = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:19:00 -1000 From: Joachim_Wiechmann@ol2.maus.de (Joachim Wiechmann) Message-Id: <199510230819.a40409@ol2.maus.de> Subject: Re: Tuning a rokkaku In message 45oa07$aq@oveja.u-net.com Charlie Charlton (charlie@akg.u-net.com) wrote: [lots of great stuff about tuning a rokkaku deleted] Hi Charlie, reading your instructions on fixing the problem with Bill's rokkaku I was wondering whether there was any hint for Bill to tie the spars together and to the sail where they meet on the kite's back. I don't think that this point is obvious to someone who is building a rok for the first time, while I do believe that it's omission may cause the kite to behave strange. Sorry for the late reply, but I only had the idea yesterday when explaining some details of my 4-foot rokkaku to a friend. Go fly a rock - err, rok. :-) Joachim = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =