Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:32:40 -1000 From: daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) Message-Id: Organization: Beckemeyer Development, Oakland CA Subject: What's a kite? Revisited In article <46t627$dbj@oveja.u-net.net>, Charlie Charlton wrote: ....> To take this argument a little further, what about the kite which > won't fly, either through bad design, or poor choice of materials, I > propose that this is a still a kite it may not be good kite but it is > still a kite Sorry, Charlie. If it is unable to fly, it isn't a kite. Might be a science experiment, or an artistic statement, but it *isn't* a kite! -- Dave Culp Speedsailing daveculp@bdt.com 312 Flaming Oak Drive http://www.bdt.com:80/home/ Pleasant Hill, CA 94596 daveculp/speedsail.html USA (NEW Website) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:03:18 -1000 From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) Message-Id: Organization: Object Design Inc., Burlington, MA Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) writes: ....> To take this argument a little further, what about the kite which > won't fly, either through bad design, or poor choice of materials, I > propose that this is a still a kite it may not be good kite but it is > still a kite Sorry, Charlie. If it is unable to fly, it isn't a kite. Might be a science experiment, or an artistic statement, but it *isn't* a kite! [Sorry to prolong this thread, but...] Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke (snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) For people who find this kind of question interesting, there's a whole body of philosophy that examines these issues. Artificial Intelligence researchers have also done interesting work in cateogorization and how to deal with exceptions. It's not an easy problem and I'm sure we won't solve it here. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:28:44 -1000 From: clifford lemons Message-Id: <47ss5s$2kc@ionews.ionet.net> Organization: IONet Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited Does that mean trees fly thousands of kites all through the spring and summer only to give up their collections in the fall and winter? They are controlled by the branches and flutter in the wind. Kites are just kites, it isn't hard, it isn't complicated, everything in the world is exactly what you want to make of it. A kite to me doesn't have to be the same idea as a kite to you, or there would only be one kind of kite. So what is a kite? I guess it is what ever you want a kite to be. Try putting a string in a glass of water and holding on to the other end. Throw the glass of water and you have flown water for a few seconds. The fact it dont fly long ...do what you always do and blame it on the wind or the dog drank it. What ever you do... HAVE FUN FLY KITES. Collette = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:42:29 -1000 From: daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) Message-Id: Organization: Beckemeyer Development, Oakland CA Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article , dlw@odi.com wrote: [Sorry to prolong this thread, but...] > > Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke > (snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much > about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, > cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) Oh, come on! isn't this one of those "if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there.." kind of stories? If it's *capable* of flying, in any kind of expected conditions (houses may fly in tornados), then it's a kite. If the dog mangles it, it's art. > > For people who find this kind of question interesting, there's a whole > body of philosophy that examines these issues. And there's a whole body of philosophy that examines whether a certain Jewish carpenter had supernatural abilities, but this isn't the venue for that either. ;-) -- Dave Culp Speedsailing daveculp@bdt.com 312 Flaming Oak Drive http://www.bdt.com:80/home/ Pleasant Hill, CA 94596 daveculp/speedsail.html USA (NEW Website) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:51:21 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Tethered Airfoil R&D Pty. Ltd.(C)(R)(TM) CD CASS Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article , Dan Weinreb wrote: >In article daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) writes: [ ] >Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke >(snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much >about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, >cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) Uh, yeah. It's an Ex-Kite, pineing for the fiords as it twer. The moment the cute cuddly doggy got my kite it transformed itself into a dogs breakfast. [ ] >cateogorization and how to deal with exceptions. It's not an easy >problem and I'm sure we won't solve it here. Oh poo. At that point it's not a kite anymore. It's an exhibit. Complete with dog drool. -- Toddler Bit By Pet Clam Finger Painting At Eleven -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:05:05 -1000 From: John Ruggiero Message-Id: <47tjd1$7ia@mail.techg.com> Organization: TechGnosis Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) wrote: >In article daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) writes: >Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke >(snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much >about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, >cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) > It becomes a broken kite. A supply of spare parts. An X-kite. A colored peice of fabric tumbling down the beach..... It is a former kite no longer a kite. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - John Ruggiero jruggiero@techg.com - - TechGnosis, Inc. - - Voice: 617-229-6100 Fax: 617-229-0557 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:18:02 -1000 From: Johnna_Doyle_at_~CPGPO01-BLA-CT@ccmail.bms.com Message-Id: <9510108160.AA816024227@ccgate1.bms.com> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited John Ruggiero at *Internet* wrote: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) wrote: >In article daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) writes: >Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke >(snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much >about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, >cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) > It becomes a broken kite. A supply of spare parts. An X-kite. A colored peice of fabric tumbling down the beach..... It is a former kite no longer a kite. A friend told me a cute story once about a little girl who put her doll to sleep in the oven. The mom turned on the oven to preheat not knowing the doll was resting inside. A short while later (and a horrible smell I'm sure) they recovered poor dolly now quite charred. The mom wanted to dispose of the doll and get the girl another, but the little girl in total childhood innocence said: "Mommy if I got burnt, would you throw me away and get another little girl?" What's a mom to say - so the little girl carried around a toasty doll for a few more years! Moral of the story - don't ditch that kite sooo soon. Many of our kites have gone on to dance lively in the sky with a little tape, some new sticks and sometimes even a few staples!! Remember once an athlete, always an athlete, just a little out of shape! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 06:10:39 -1000 From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb) Message-Id: Organization: Object Design Inc., Burlington, MA Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) writes: > Suppose you were out flying a kite, when all of a sudden it broke > (snapped a spar, got mangled by one of those dogs we hear so much > about) to the point where it cannot fly. Did it, at that instant, > cease being a kite? (I mean this merely as a rhetorical question.) Oh, come on! isn't this one of those "if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there.." kind of stories? If it's *capable* of flying, in any kind of expected conditions (houses may fly in tornados), then it's a kite. If the dog mangles it, it's art. I apologize for sounding pretentious. It just seems to me that there is such a thing as a "broken kite". Whereas you seem to be saying that there are no broken kites -- once it breaks, it's not a kite at all. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 21:29:09 -1000 From: daveculp@bdt.com (Dave Culp) Message-Id: Organization: Beckemeyer Development, Oakland CA Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article , dlw@odi.com wrote: > If it's *capable* of flying, in any kind > of expected conditions (houses may fly in tornados), then it's a kite. If > the dog mangles it, it's art. > > I apologize for sounding pretentious. It just seems to me that there > is such a thing as a "broken kite". Whereas you seem to be saying > that there are no broken kites -- once it breaks, it's not a kite at > all. Ok, let's see where this leads... (not to split hairs, but, then if we weren't splitting hairs, we'd all be hard at work!) If it's still a kite after it breaks, then is it a kite before it's assembled from your kite bag? How about before it's built? Before the fabric's cut? How about before the nylon's fabricated? At just what point during the conception process does it actually become a legally defensible kite, with legal rights? And what about after the breakage? Does it have to be repairable breakage to still "be" a kite? What if the dog actually eats it? Is it a kite until the component parts rot and return to the earth? When is a kite dead? Where does its soul go? (and don't tell me a kite doesn't have a soul, you heartless beast!) Sorry all, just having fun... not! ;-) -- ===================================================================== | Dave Culp, Broker Assoc Office: 510.933.9300 | | Diablo Realty Voice Mail: 510.933.9305 x 308 | | 975 Ygnacio Valley Rd. E-Mail: daveculp@bdt.com | | Walnut Creek, CA 94596 WWW: http://www.bdt.com/home/daveculp/ | ===================================================================== = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 14:40:12 -1000 From: Richard Bettis Message-Id: <423382348wnr@fats.demon.co.uk> Organization: Health & Safety Lab Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited A simple answer: Kite: something its builder calls a kite. Sub-classifications might include: Kite, flyable Kite, broken Kite, dog-fodder Kite, trashed by Peter Lynn Kite, made by Peter Lynn, trashed by Andrew Kite, pretty / ugly / pretty ugly (possibly combined with any of the above) etc etc. Alternative: Kite: subject of discussion on rec.kites (recently less used for practicality and more for philosophy) -- +===========================================================================+ | Richard Bettis | "My lines and life are free; free as the | | | road, loose as the winde. | |Kite Fliers Quotes (maybe): | George Herbert (1593 - 1633) | +===========================================================================+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 15:08:08 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Tethered Airfoil R&D Pty. Ltd.(C)(R)(TM) CD CASS Subject: Re: What's a kite? Revisited In article , Dave Culp wrote: >In article , dlw@odi.com wrote: >> If it's *capable* of flying, in any kind >> of expected conditions (houses may fly in tornados), then it's a kite. If >> the dog mangles it, it's art. >> I apologize for sounding pretentious. It just seems to me that there >> is such a thing as a "broken kite". Whereas you seem to be saying >> that there are no broken kites -- once it breaks, it's not a kite at >> all. [ ] >Where does its soul go? (and don't tell me a kite doesn't have a soul, you >heartless beast!) Frisbeetarianism: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- Plums Have Spiritual Powers, Explain Japanese AI Experts Exclusive Woodblock Prints Inside -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =